Don’t do it! Why newbies should NOT start with old planes.

[Randal Stevenson]

I started out like a lot of others. Inherited tools.

I went to find out how to sharpen and use my grandfathers plane (a defiance #5) and found it wasn't worth the effort (according to what I read). I kinda ignored that, and learned how to sharpen the blade, and read about people using them as scrub planes.
I kept my eye out at garage sales (after watching the bay and seeing things go for next to nothing to ), and stumbled onto a Craftsman (Sargent) #4, a Stanley Bailey #5 and #7, for $25. All had paint/stain and surface rust (no pitting), I could check for cracks, amount of blade, etc. I cleaned all of them, but only have tuned the #5 (because I could kinda compare it to the Defiance). I picked up a LN 40 1/2 scrub and used that, and realize, I still have a ways to go (no mentor, just me and the public library). I have thought if I can find another of the ones I have, I would like to send it to someone like Clint Jones or Rarebear (woodnet), so I have something to compare to, learn from.

Even buying a new plane, is going to be a problem, if I can't keep it in shape.

That is my experience.

[Kevin French]

Danny I can't disagree with you MORE

1st of all you need to pro-rate the price of that granite over all the planes you'll flatten and all the blades you will sharpen on it.

2nd You didn't use ALL the emery cloth and sand paper on that one plane, if you did, YOU GOT A BAD PLANE.

3rd 20 hrs????? I say again, YOU GOT A BAD PLANE.

I have bought A LOT of the dogs on ebay and I have never spent that much money/time on any one of them.

I don't and the more I read posts like this will NEVER own a LN/LV/NEW plane.

The old planes made far better pieces then I will ever make, so I think I'll keep using them. Will add new steel at some point but I am very happy with the old ones.

4th never paid $26 for a #4, I did pay $25 for a #7 once.

[Danny Thompson]

Kevin,

1. I understand your point about the prorating. It would apply if I had in mind to build a stable of planes. Truth is, I'm just trying to get a good worker or two so I can get some work done. I can prorate later if I find I can make a go of it, but for now, I'm just getting started. And again, I already have the waterstones for sharpening. If you are a scarysharper, your point applies.

2. Yep, I did, tons of sandpaper, and I need more to finish the job. This is my point.

There are so many different recommendations that I tried along the way. Emery cloth, sandpaper; dry sandpaper, wet/dry sandpaper drizzled with water, with WD40, with 3-in-1 oil;, use water to hold down the paper, use painters tape, adhesive spray; mdf, melamine, jointer, table saw, float glass, granite tile, granite scraps, granite slab. It goes on and on and on. When you are a noob and the system you've chosen from the many advised isn't working, you try another, and then another. Is it your technique? So it's watch the video clips again, read the posts, post your pics on SMC, plan a side-trip on vacation to a Woodcraft, ask for advice, buy more product, try again. It can all get out of hand.

And before you know it you have burned through a significant amount of time and money.

Bad plane, bad technique, bad sandpaper, bad water, I don't know. Doesn't matter. Any which way you slice it I would have been better off with a tool in better condition, and so would a lot of other noobs.

3. I say again, maybe so.

I can't see how this convinces you to never buy new, but hey, more power to you. You seem to know what you are doing. Consider me jealous.

4. About the price. Again, consider me jealous. Memphis simply doesn't have the wealth of old tools that you New Englanders seem to enjoy.

My point is, it isn't always as easy and straightforward as the experienced neanders make it sound. For a noob, it can be a total pain and sabotage a season of work. I never heard this alternative point of view, and thought other newcomers might need to.

[Mike Cutler]

Danny

Don't be dismayed.
It does cost money to rehab an old plane. If you start from ground zero like you did, you see those costs more readily. While everyone may not have spent as much as you did. They should do a qiuck mental calc on what it would cost to replace all of their sharpening equipment that was acquired over time. Everything is expensive these days.

If I add my stuff up it would look something like this;

Bench grinder
Oil Stones
Water Stones
Lapping compunds
Sandpaper/steel wool/ scotcbrite pads
Granite plate
Assorted files( Not useful for woodworking, just metal work)
Assorted degreaser, rust removal products, Phosphoric acid.

So yeah, To rehab that "first plane", and get that first shaving, would be sort of expensive as you found out. Most folks acquire this stuff over time,
and the cost is spread out amongst various duties that each perform. It still cost $$$ to rehab any tool, or machine though.

Don't give up on the used market. I have an assortment of Flea Market planes that I had long before my first LN plane. One day that LN plane will need to be retuned, and the cost of learning on flea market specials will be worth the $$$ when I have to work on the LN.

[Michael McCoy]

This has been an interesting thread for me. A lot of the problems that newbies have (at least this one) is not knowing enough about refurbing/maintaining a decent plane or even a bad one. Until a year ago, my experience with handplanes was just using my grandfathers a little over 40 years ago and they were sweet. A couple of years ago, I decided I wanted to get something besides my BORG cheapos and got a couple of the Woodcraft India made Groz planes. I couldn't get them to do anything but chatter and tear out wood, so they started to collect dust. Then I started browsing this forum and got myself a LN 4 1/2 jack plane a couple of months ago along with a lot of reading material about sharpening and maintenance. Those Groz planes will never be near the LN but they are now acceptable and all for the cost of a piece of glass, a little sand paper and cheated by getting the Veritas jig to hone them with. Of course those India made things may not get much use since that jack plane twisted my arm and talked me into a LN smoothing plane and a block plane. I keep trying to jump on some of the older planes in the forums but I'm not quite quick enough.

[Steve Clardy]

Just posting to keep up

I'll get back to this thread later

[Danny Thompson]

My thought is that a high quality plane would buy me some time to learn how a plane should look, feel, and work before it needs serious work. Once it does need serious fettling, then I will be in a better position to refurb.

I am afraid that some may misread me that I am saying don't ever get started with older planes. I don't mean that. I mean don't go with a rehab job first.

[Al Willits]

I have three and soon to be four older Stanley planes I've bought from Nic and I doubt I have $185 into them, including the fourth.
They are very sharp (scary sharp), free of rust and for this newbie they work very well, not so sure I'd have four Lee planes at $200-300+ a piece
as my woodworking budget just doesn't have that much funding in it.

While I think the newer high end planes are very nice, as long as I can get by with these I'll put my money into something else.

Nice used planes can be had with a little effort, our local woodworkers guild has them in their classifieds from time to time and they can be gotten on this forum, little plug for Nic Obie as he's been great to deal with, but others I'm sure have them too.

Its all about personal choice.

Al

[Danny Thompson]

Hitting again on the theme of a known trusted source, Al, sounds like you got a good one from the get-go. Congrats. Who is Nic and how can a noob find him? Were they flat when you got them and if so, how flat?

Hey, maybe this will turn into a reference listing of all the known trusted sources out there. Then noobs like me will know where to go.

[Andrew Williams]

I'm going to say this, as the truth, and not just to be different...

I agree 100% with the OP..

If you are serious about getting into planing and have never done it before, knowing what a good plane can do to a wood surface is an invaluable experience.

Once you get to that point, then you can start trying to make an oldie work as well as a new quality plane like LV or LN.

FWIW, only one of my old Stanleys is in the same ball park as my LV's and LN, and that one has a Hock blade and chipbreaker! They are all flat, have good frog seats and sharp blades, but there's only so much they can do on today's twisted gnarly wood.

YMMV

[Kevin French]

Danny when flatten'n the sole of your planes, provided you try it again, use belt sander belts glue to your base. They do a better job and last a lot longer then emery cloth or sand paper.

[Al Willits]

Danny, Nic Obie is a member of this forum, maybe PM him.

I still know little about reconditioning a plane and would shy away from doing so, but what members here have told me is to get a reconditioned plane, so I know what a "good" one should look and feel like when using.

Nic mentioned he had a block plane and quoted what I thought was a very fair price, took a chance and sent him a check.

I'll be buying my forth plane as soon as I write him a check.
I don't have enough skill yet to tell ya these are perfect planes, but they work well and they are in great shape and sharp as all get out.

I'm normally a little gun shy about buying sight unseen, but I've never had a bad experience on this forum.

I also like the ability to be able to afford several planes, there are so many different ones that buying a dozen high end planes would cost a fortune and as a newbie I can't justify the expense.
Good quality older planes (read less costly) allow me to get into planes and see what I like, I can always upgrade if I find a particular plane I like/want.

Hope this rambling helps.

Al

[Steve Clardy]

Quite a thread here.

Sorry to hear of your troubles Danny.
I got into planes about 3 years ago.
All it was then was facination, after seeing some of Terry Hatfield's Bedrocks he restored. I hadn't used a hand plane since high school shop.
I told myself, hey, I can do that.
So three years later, and a hundred or so stanleys laying around, I learned to restore them.

I use a 6x89 edge sander to flatten the soles if needed.

I can do a plane in a couple of hours.
Thats stripping, painting, polishing, the whole shebang.
I've done 2-3 dozen now I guess.
I've sold most, but have kept out all the type 13's for my users.
I have a ways to go before getting all of those done.
I keep either selling them or giving them to special friends.
Can't seem to get that set completed

Anyhoo. I enjoy rehabbing planes when I get a little extra time.

[Jim Koepke]

My thought is that a high quality plane would buy me some time to learn how a plane should look, feel, and work before it needs serious work. Once it does need serious fettling, then I will be in a better position to refurb.

I am afraid that some may misread me that I am saying don't ever get started with older planes. I don't mean that. I mean don't go with a rehab job first.

Many years ago, when there were shops with aprentices, I would bet that is how the aprentice started. One works their way up the mountain before they get to slide down the slippery slope.

I also think you have learned a valuble lesson. When I go to the yard sales and flea markets, I want to have a few tools with me, straight edge, magnifier and a tape measure so I can evaluate a plane or chisel before any money is offered.

Jim

[Tristan Raymond]

Danny when flatten'n the sole of your planes, provided you try it again, use belt sander belts glue to your base. They do a better job and last a lot longer then emery cloth or sand paper.

Good tip!

I picked up a #4 and #7 about a year ago on eBay. They worked pretty well so I didn't put too much effort into them - new Hock blades and they were very usable. After seeing this thread I thought I'd have another go at flattening their soles. It had occurred to me to use belt sander belts, but I had forgotten the thought when I started again. Lots of work, little gain. The belt sander belt is going much quicker.

In the interim I've purchased a LN Low Angle Jack plane. I'm on the fence on the bigger issue here. If you just want to get to working with wood I see no reason not to buy a good working plane - and a LN or Veritas if you have the money. If you want to be at one with your tools and have the time, you will learn much about planes and probably feel a great sense of accomplishment if you tune an older plane.