Don’t do it! Why newbies should NOT start with old planes.

[Bill Houghton]

I agree that you can buy bad planes, but I think you may have gone in with premises that conflict with the price you paid. It seems like you paid a user-plane price, and then wanted (consciously or not) to have a new-looking tool, and have realized how much work you did to get it there. I will confess to a strong prejudice in this area: tools are for use. To make an analogy, it's the difference between a pickup truck that looks like it just came off the farm and a dent-free one with shiny paint and chrome wheels. Both of them will haul a load of straw or manure, though only one will look comfortable doing so. I have no problem with pretty shiny tools - I just bought a Lee Valley medium shoulder plane, and am keeping it in the plastic anti-rust bag so it stays pretty as long as possible - but, when it comes to making shavings, I don't particularly worry about how the tool looks, only how it works.

Some comments:

1. I clean off dead spiders and rust with an SOS pad and hot water - not sure of total cost (this isn't my shopping specialty), but I doubt it exceeds 50 cents - though one plane pretty well uses up one SOS pad. Then I wipe off the plane with paper towels (one cent?), spray it with WD40 (another cent? maybe two), wipe it down again, and apply furniture wax everywhere. I'm not going to count the cost of the can of wax, because you need a can of wax for any number of reasons anyway, and one can will last you five years. The tools don't wind up shiny, but they wind up working.

2. I've never flattened a plane sole. I don't even know how out of flat my current planes are, up to and including the No. 8. They seem to work. I have gotten rid of planes that were seriously out of flat, but only two - and I managed to turn one into a birthday present for a family member who wanted the concept of tools, but, I knew, would never actually use them (I still regret the spokeshave I gave him that birthday, but have replaced it, twice over, since).

3. Myself, I'd never buy a plane on deBay as a first plane. You should be able to touch it and look it over. Too many bad possibilities with eBay buying that are subtle enough that you need experience before buying a picture and a description.

4. Paint does not appreciably improve the performance of a plane. While a nice paint job will improve its aerodynamics, the effect doesn't kick in until you reach Mach 0.5, which takes some years of practice.

5. In my experience, absent real problems - and, indeed, you did have real problems with that yoke - 75% of getting a plane tuned up is getting the iron sharp, and 20% is waxing the sole and the operating surfaces.

Sorry if this sounded like a slam, but I think one of the wrong paths down which people, especially newcomers, are turning these days with hand tools is the path of thinking you can't make good shavings until the tool is pimped out. You can. I'm not sure how this path came about, exactly. Part of the origin was people who'd reached the point that they wanted to plane stuff so smooth that a fly that landed on the surface would slide right off unless it had lost all airspeed, and so developed standards of super-tuning. If you're planning to race your car at Indy, you need to know that stuff (can you tell I grew up in a car family?), but you don't start out racing, you start out driving on regular streets, and you need a car that's tuned well enough to get to the store and back. You can do SO much with a tool that's clean, sharp, and sound, but not tuned to the nth.

If really good-looking tools are important to you, and that's a perfectly legitimate attitude, then save your money until you can buy from one of the new tool makers. Just be aware that it's an element in your decision, and you'll be able to stay away from attempts to save money by buying something that requires a lot of work before it meets your image of an acceptable tool.

[Kevin French]

Bill has a lot of good thoughts in his post.

I would like to add:

IF, someone has to ask 'what brand of tool do I need?' that tells me two things.

1. They don't know anything about that tool.

2. They didn't bother to find out about the tool and want YOU to tell them about it.

Now if a 16 year old kid asks you, 'What car should I get?' Are you going to tell him to get a BMW, MB, or a Hummer?

If newbie to astronomy asks what telescope to get are you going to tell him to get a 4m scope like the one one Kitt Peak instead of telling him to get a pair of binoculars?

This person may not continue with WW'n. When he tells SWMBO he needs a $300 #5 LN Hand Plane, AND THEN NEVER GETS IT TO WORK, do you think he'll ever get any other tool?

Start cheap, buy lots of lumber, learn the skills, get better tools.

MAN makes the tools, tools DON'T make the man.

Expensive tools don't make up for the lack of experience. You gotta pay your dues, and it's a disservice to a newbie to point him to LN, LV just because they are the best. JMHO.

[Danny Thompson]

Hmm . . maybe the sole doesn't need to be flat. This conflicts with so many other posts I've read, but I'm in no position to argue. I may be forced to give that a try.

[Danny Thompson]

Good tip!

. . . If you just want to get to working with wood I see no reason not to buy a good working plane - and a LN or Veritas if you have the money. If you want to be at one with your tools and have the time, you will learn much about planes and probably feel a great sense of accomplishment if you tune an older plane.

I think that statement best summarizes what I'm taking from this thread so far. "Good working plane" might be one from a seasoned, reputable restorer, or one you select and restore with the assistance of an experienced woodworker.

[Marcus Ward]

Hmm . . maybe the sole doesn't need to be flat. This conflicts with so many other posts I've read, but I'm in no position to argue. I may be forced to give that a try.

So you didn't actually use it before you started messing with it?

Repeated lapping by someone who isn't familiar with the process can produce a hollow under the casting that runs parallel to the sides. It'd be ironic if the plane was fine before you started. Put it all back together and give it a test run. Make sure the blade is sharpened properly. Set the frog so the iron is very close to the front of the mouth, for a very fine shaving, but not so close that it'll close up when you extend the blade. Start with the iron up inside the plane and slowly, 1/4 turn at a time, adjust it down until it starts shaving. Then go by 1/8th turns. If you can peel off a nice fine shaving, run with it.

I think that statement best summarizes what I'm taking from this thread so far. "Good working plane" might be one from a seasoned, reputable restorer, or one you select and restore with the assistance of an experienced woodworker.

Or you can just teach yourself using online guides. However, you have to be an autodidact. I'm very good at it, better than most. Some people aren't and require assistance. Probably most people would benefit from assistance, but before I started with the planes the nicest plane I'd ever used was a lee valley b/u jack at a woodworking show for about 2 minutes. I knew what I was aiming for.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Danny, one of the things you learn as you start swimming the handtools waters is the sources. I wasn't paying attention earlier to notice that you are from Memphis. One good source for old tools in Memphis is the big flea market at the state fair grounds once a month. They have their own website containing the calendar etc. There are a few tool vendors that show up on a regular basis. I have found most of the stuff to be slightly expensive, but you get to see and hold the tool in your hand before you buy. I'd happily pay 10-15% above eBay prices for that.

[Danny Thompson]

Marcus,

I did try it out early on. Chatter would be an understatement. I found it had two settings:

1) grip-and-hold
2) slip-n-slide

"However, you have to be an autodidact. I'm very good at it, better than most. Some people aren't and require assistance. "

Wow! I can't believe you just called me stupid.

Auto didactict?

[Danny Thompson]

Thanks, Zahid.

I heard the flea market had burned down and closed. Guess not.

[Zahid Naqvi]

the word autowhatchmaycallit raised my curiosity so I looked it up, here's the official meaning from dictionary.com

"a person who has learned a subject without the benefit of a teacher or formal education; a self-taught person."

I might consider it a badge of honor of sorts , heck if Sam Maloof claims to be an autodidact I have no shame to be one.

[Marcus Ward]

Wow! I can't believe you just called me stupid.

No, I merely pointed out that most people have a different learning style. I never called you stupid and am sorry you interpreted it that way. Everyone learns differently, and most people need some assistance or gentle guidance when undertaking something new. Me, I just plow ahead and make a lot of mistakes and figure it out.

[Danny Thompson]

Just kidding with you. I wasn't offended.

[Larry Laffer]

Danny, I believe there is real value in trying to restore a plane, even if you fail, as you always learn something when you try something new. For a few of us, buying old tools is a financial necessity. Others do it because they're just chea, uh, frugal. Some make a decent profit from restoration and resale. And some do it just because for them, it's enjoyable. I can't afford the tools I dream about, but I've found that I really enjoy taking an old tool that looks like a piece of junk, and bringing it back to life. While I'm working on it, I like to give some thought to it's past life and past owners, if I know them. Or speculate if I don't. I regret I can't explain it well. It's not religious, but it almost approaches it. I suspect a Japanese woodworker would know what I'm talking about immediately. Try shopping at auctions, flea markets, Craigslist, the papers, etc, and find an inexpensive plane that is reasonably rust-free and has a fairly flat sole. Take a plastic drafting square with you to test the flatness. Or buy from a reputable restorer of old tools. Good Luck!

[Jake Darvall]

Danny, I believe there is real value in trying to restore a plane, even if you fail, as you always learn something when you try something new.

Agree entirely. Thats what its all about.

Amongst other things working with old tools gives you confidence in just basic sharpening. Because your free to experiment more. Naturally you don't want to experiement with a flash plane. Don't learn much at all as a consequence I think.

At work there's a 3rd year apprentice. He purchased a good quality modern plane ($300 or whatever) in his first year. Loved it straight out of the box.......But once it bluntened, because its so precious to him he fears even attempting to re-sharpen it because he knows he may make a mess of it. Had no practise . I've attempted to teach him a method, but he's too stubborn to listen. Some silly competition thing going on between us.

So it just sits on the shelf unused. Instead hes using my old planes all the time when I'm not looking so I have to do all the sharpening. Getting a bit jack of it too. . says a lot I think.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hey Jake, the way to fix the young whippersnapper is to take one of the planes he borrows regularly and file or otherwise put a minor nick inot one section of the edge. You have the skill to fix it, but he'll get a real surprise the first time he tries to smoothe a surface.

Remember my friend, old age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time.

[Bart Leetch]

Hey Jake, the way to fix the young whippersnapper is to take one of the planes he borrows regularly and file or otherwise put a minor nick in to one section of the edge. You have the skill to fix it, but he'll get a real surprise the first time he tries to smoothe a surface.

Remember my friend, old age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time.

Heck I'd just put some old dull blades in all your planes if you have a few dull blades to spare.

When you want to use one of them trade the blade out for a nice sharp one.

When he complains tell him that a 3rd year apprentice should know how to sharpen his own tools if he's really an apprentice & uses HIS tools.

If he only knew there are those of us out here that read the forums , books & magazines to learn how to sharpen our tools & are even somewhat successful.