Sharpening Methodologies

[Joel Moskowitz]

"Oilstones are slow wearing, and as such the surface is being exposed slowly.
Also, I believe the stone's abrasive particles break down into smaller and smaller pieces, so while the average size of the particles might be 14 microns. Being a natural material, there could exist a mixture of anything from 1 micron particles up to 20 micron particles. This would give you a better polishing action, since the smaller particles still cut."

Arkansas stones good ones at least do not wear significantly. My own are 20 years old and have never been flattened- the ones at the school I trained are 30 years old - get used constantly and have never been flattened. THe partical size is large and rounded. the comparison is meaningless.


As for the quality of 18th century work. I have seen craftsmen produce excellent work without a 'super' sharp edge. Also, what was used to produce the lovely work seen from the renaissance? What was used before arkansas stone was sold?

ARkansas stones, Cherney forest stones, turkey stones were some of the first Nationally avaiable cutting stones. Before that there were dozends of regional stones that found favor and worked as well - just were not avialalbe in the qantitiy to allow large distribution.

"Hey, I wil admit to falling into this trap. I am finishing off right now my clone of the Lee Valley mark II sharpening system. I want it to help me with some of the rough slog work when tuning up flea market blades."

IMHO you would be better off with a $50 grinder, a wheel dresser, and a decent grinding wheel which will cut far faster and hollow grind to book.

[Terry Beadle]

I also use a rock maple scrap ( 2 1/2 by 8 approximately ) that has been planed dead flat. Then a mixture of rottenstone, water , and a small bit of glue ( about a 1/2 teaspoon ) is applied to the surface. This makes a thick pastey coating on the rock maple. Let dry 24 hours. Then use this as a strop but only very lightly. It's like an extremely fine sandpaper along the lines of Scary Sharpe but stays tuff a long time. Pennies to make. Just sand it flat and apply a fresh coat after a long time of use.

From an idea on a FWW Tips and Techniques video, Jim Cummings is the fellows name. Really a great video.

Happy shavings,

Terry

[James Carmichael]

James,
You might find a maple strop to work better than leather. Take a chunk of 3/4" ply and mount 1/4" thick slices of endgrain maple. plane it nice and flat and you have a strop that is nice and hard and should last you a life time. You might want to read Brent Beach's page on stropping though. Link is mentioned below.

Joel,

I agree that these charts don't give the whole picture. They do however show what the relative grit size is on each of the stones.

The cutting action of sandpaper, oilstones and waterstones are all different.

Waterstones are constantly showing new abrasives which will be the starting size of 14 microns, this means that the cuts in the steel will never be smaller than 14 microns. Waterstones (especially the newer man made ones) have a very consistent abrasive size.

The sandpaper isn't showing new abrasives like the waterstone, but the abrasives do dull and wear off of the sandpaper, this would slow the cutting action but also means that some of the abrasive particles could be smaller than 14 microns, but probably not, they just end up losing their 'sharpness' and not cutting anymore.

Oilstones are slow wearing, and as such the surface is being exposed slowly. Also, I believe the stone's abrasive particles break down into smaller and smaller pieces, so while the average size of the particles might be 14 microns. Being a natural material, there could exist a mixture of anything from 1 micron particles up to 20 micron particles. This would give you a better polishing action, since the smaller particles still cut.

As for the quality of 18th century work. I have seen craftsmen produce excellent work without a 'super' sharp edge. Also, what was used to produce the lovely work seen from the renaissance? What was used before arkansas stone was sold?

Overall, current woodworkers end up being far more anal about sharpening and trying to get a sharper edge, and with less work on the part of the woodworker.

Hey, I wil admit to falling into this trap. I am finishing off right now my clone of the Lee Valley mark II sharpening system. I want it to help me with some of the rough slog work when tuning up flea market blades.

Either way, sharpening is always a fun topic to talk about.

Scott

Scott,

I don't see any link.

I would like to try that as I just happen to be in the middle of a project using lots of 3/4 ply and hard maple. Will be sure to save the endgrain pieces (I save all hardwood scraps) when I square it up.

[Ken Garlock]

HI TJ. If you don't already know, you can get up to at least 2000 grit at Elliott's hardware on Maple or in Plano.

Happy Saw Dust.

[Teresa Jones]

HI TJ. If you don't already know, you can get up to at least 2000 grit at Elliott's hardware on Maple or in Plano.

Happy Saw Dust.

Ken,

I LOVE Elliot's Hardware Store. I have not been to the Plano store but I have been to the Maple store numerous times.

TJ

[James Carmichael]

Ken,

I LOVE Elliot's Hardware Store. I have not been to the Plano store but I have been to the Maple store numerous times.

TJ

Teresa & Ken,

Nice to see some fellow North Texans

I get 800-2000 grit at AutoZone, 150-600 pretty much anywhere (Lowes or HD). When my current supply runs out, I plan to try the self-adhesive 3m papers from ToolsforWoodworking.

[Scott Quesnelle]

Arkansas stones good ones at least do not wear significantly. My own are 20 years old and have never been flattened- the ones at the school I trained are 30 years old - get used constantly and have never been flattened. THe partical size is large and rounded. the comparison is meaningless.

As for the quality of 18th century work. I have seen craftsmen produce excellent work without a 'super' sharp edge. Also, what was used to produce the lovely work seen from the renaissance? What was used before arkansas stone was sold?

ARkansas stones, Cherney forest stones, turkey stones were some of the first Nationally avaiable cutting stones. Before that there were dozends of regional stones that found favor and worked as well - just were not avialalbe in the qantitiy to allow large distribution.

"Hey, I wil admit to falling into this trap. I am finishing off right now my clone of the Lee Valley mark II sharpening system. I want it to help me with some of the rough slog work when tuning up flea market blades."

IMHO you would be better off with a $50 grinder, a wheel dresser, and a decent grinding wheel which will cut far faster and hollow grind to book.

Joel,
I have tried oilstones, and just never liked them. If they work for you that is great, but for me other than sharpening my pocket knife, I don't like oilstones.

I am also not a fan of waterstones at the moment. I don't like the softness of the ones that I have, and I don't like having to worry about flatness of them.

I do have a grinder and use it, but it is of no use when I am trying to get big pits out of the back of a chisel or plane blade that I bought.

Getting things sharp can be done in many many ways. I am glad you found one that has worked for you. For me I'm still trying to find the one that I like the best.

James,

Here is the link to Brent Beach's site.

http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/bevels.html
here is where he talks about stropping
http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Str...Stropping.html

as for a plan for the strop, I saw the maple one in a book on sharpening, but I cannot remember the author at the moment. Will check when I get home.

[Joel Moskowitz]

Scott,
You are right - there is more than one way to skin a cat. Use whatever works for you. I only take issue with the table of grits because it's implied conclusion is wrong.

I typically only flatten the tinest area near the edge of the back using - if it's really bad either a diamond plate or couarse lapping film. However Toshio Odate has suggested using a tradtional Japanese iron plate with diamond paste. I plan to try that soon.

Thanks for posting Brent's links. I knew about his inital testing but not the stropping test. I am very glad to see actual evidence showing how a treated strop dulls the edge. It concurs with the way I was trained and my own results. I do wish he had also tried an untreated strop but you can't have everything.

[James Carmichael]

I also use a rock maple scrap ( 2 1/2 by 8 approximately ) that has been planed dead flat. Then a mixture of rottenstone, water , and a small bit of glue ( about a 1/2 teaspoon ) is applied to the surface. This makes a thick pastey coating on the rock maple. Let dry 24 hours. Then use this as a strop but only very lightly. It's like an extremely fine sandpaper along the lines of Scary Sharpe but stays tuff a long time. Pennies to make. Just sand it flat and apply a fresh coat after a long time of use.

From an idea on a FWW Tips and Techniques video, Jim Cummings is the fellows name. Really a great video.

Happy shavings,

Terry

Interesting, Terry, you are basically making a mini-butcher's block table. The English table was sycamore or maple with the end grain on top, and, as I'm sure everyone here knows, is where "block planes" get their name.

What is rottenstone?