Yep, another ROS/vacuum question

[David Miller]

Hi All,

I want to purchase a new ROS and vacuum. I've been reading various posts and am still unsure what combination to purchase. Let me start with my requirements:

1. Dust collection. I've made dust collection a priority in my new shop. I want to minimize my exposure to fine dust.

2. Ease of use. This includes things like low vibration, good control, configurations that aren't annoying to use (tangled hoses, crazy adapters) etc.

3. Cost.

Here is what I've been considering:

1. Festool. I know this 'may' be the easy answer. But is it the only answer? I would purchase the ETS 150/3 and CT 22 combo.

2. Festool sander with Ridgid SNR equipped shop vac. I'd also go with a Cleanstream filter.

3. Bosch (either 3725DEVS or 3727DEVS) sander with Ridgid SNR equipped shop vac and Cleanstream filter.

4. Bosch sander with Festool CT 22.

5. Either sander with a Fein vacuum?

Questions:

Does the CT 22 clean the air any better than a Cleanstream equipped Ridgid vacuum? They are both HEPA rated (0.3 microns). The added features of the Festool are not a top priority (although I am aware of them).

Is the ETS 150/3 more comfortable to use than the Bosch?

How useful is the variable suction on the CT 22?

I welcome any comments/suggestion/questions.

Thanks!
Dave

[Gary Keedwell]

I was in the same situation a year ago. I opted for the Festool 150/3 and C 22 combo. The only probnlem I found was the 150/3 is a finish sander and not very aggresive, even using coarse sandpaper. On more then a few occasions I had to use my Mikita ROS to do the courser sanding, which of course, negates my original intent of dust control. I am now researching, yet again, another Festool to compliment the 150/3.

Gary

[Bob Childress]

Well, I am biased since I use the 150/3 and the CT-22. But I got there by trying other sanders/vacs and being unhappy. The sander: low vibration, solid feel, easy to use, and Festo makes superior abrasives (though good ones can be had for other sizes as well).

The vac: the CT22 really shines--
Low noise
Variable suction (important when sanding as too much makes the sander "stick" to the material)
Lock your sander systainer on top and good to go off site.
Power on/off connected to the tool

There are other good sanders, but I prefer the Festo because of the "system design" that works well with my other Festo tools.

Just my 2 cents.

[Art Mann]

A recent issue of Wood magazine did a review of random orbital sanders. Bosch, Festool, Ridgid, Craftsman, Dewalt and several others were compared. They liked the Bosch the best. It might be worth it to get the magazine and read the article.

[David Miller]

Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the responses.

Gary, I worry about wedging myself into a similar position. I'd rather purchase one sander that is more universal than investing in several units. On the other hand, maybe I have too narrow a view on sanding. I have different shoes for different activities (but my shoes don't cost several hundred $$$ ).

Bob, can you share some of the combinations that you tried in the past?

Art, I've heard that article mentioned elsewhere. I'll have to dig through my pile. Do you know if they rated dust collection?

Also, I wanted to add the Metabo SXE450 to my list. Any comments on this unit?

Thanks,
Dave

[Gary Keedwell]

Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the responses.

Gary, I worry about wedging myself into a similar position. I'd rather purchase one sander that is more universal than investing in several units. On the other hand, maybe I have too narrow a view on sanding. I have different shoes for different activities (but my shoes don't cost several hundred $$$ ).

Bob, can you share some of the combinations that you tried in the past?

Art, I've heard that article mentioned elsewhere. I'll have to dig through my pile. Do you know if they rated dust collection?

Also, I wanted to add the Metabo SXE450 to my list. Any comments on this unit?

Thanks,
Dave

Since my purchase if the Festool 150/3 I have read many posts that concur that the 150/3 is usually a complimentary tool used often in harmony with their Rotex sander.
Gary

[Bob Childress]

Bob, can you share some of the combinations that you tried in the past?

Thanks,
Dave

Sure thing. Not too exciting, really. Started with an old B&D but it shook my arm off. A Ryobi 1/4 sheet which spit dust everywhere. Then a PC 1/4 sheet and a PC ROS hooked to a shop vac. Some better, but the vac was too loud for my taste. Then bought the CT-22 and hooked to the PC Sanders. Huge improvement in dust collection! Didn't know what I had been missing!

But when I wanted to refinish a large entertainment center, the PC sander wore me out. It took forever. That's when I took the plunge and bought the Rotex 150. Can't be beat for aggressive stock/finish removal and virtually dust free. I would recommend the Rotex as an all-around sander. In rotary mode it hogs off the material and in ROS mode it gives a nice finish at higher grits. I later got the 150/3 for the shorter throw (3 mm vs 7 mm) which is a better finishing tool. After that, it went downhill fast. Added the DX93 for detail work and corner sanding and then the LS130 for profile sanding.

As you say, it can be difficult to find one sander to do everything.

The dust collection combo with Festo is the best I've ever experienced.

[Art Mann]

Art, I've heard that article mentioned elsewhere. I'll have to dig through my pile. Do you know if they rated dust collection?

Hi Dave,

I was looking for the article and discovered that my memory is bad. The article to which I was referring was actually published in Fine Woodworking Magazine, July/August 2006. That article did, in fact, measure the percentage of dust collected by each of the units rated.

[Jamie Buxton]

I'm not familiar with the Rigid shop vac you're considering, but generally shops vacs have two shortcomings compared to the dust extractors like the Festool and the Fein.

1) Shops vacs generally have a large-diameter hose which is more rigid, and it inhibits how you can move the sander around.

2) Shop vacs often lack the tool-triggered feature. For sanding, it is great to be able to turn the sander on and off, and that action turns the vacuum on or off.

If you're only going to use this dust extractor with a sander, you can buy a smaller unit with less dust capacity, and that will save you money over a bigger unit with more dust capacity.

[JayStPeter]

I have the ETS150-5 and a Fein. It works well and I recommend the sander. I wouldn't want a less agressive sander unless I had something like a Rotex that is more aggressive also. I find it good as a finish sander also, but I probably have just gotten used to using finer paper than those that have a -3 when flattening finish. If I had no vac, I'd probably get a CT-22, but I had the Fein before Festool came to the US. I use a Cleanstream with the Fein and also in my old Craftsman beast. They work well, but I think the bag in the Festool would make life a little easier than cleaning out fine sawdust clogged filters. The Fein does keep me from having to wear ear protection when sanding.

Jay

[David Miller]

Thanks for the additional replies.

The Ridgid vac that I'm considering is

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...cStoreNum=4180

It has the noise reduction feature and people have said it is as quiet as the Fein and Festool. I would add the Cleanstream for improved filtration.

Art, thanks for the reference. I don't have Fine Woodworking here but I can stop by the library.

Jamie: the hose issue is not something I was worrying too much about but now I realize I listed it under number 2 on my list. So the better hose on the Festool is a positive. The tool activated feature is definitely nice but I have one of those Craftsman gizmos for switching tools on and off with the sander.

Jay, do you feel you can get a good finish with the 5mm stroke sander? If you had the choice would you rather have a pair of sanders: one less and one more aggressive?

I was looking at the vacuum and router support for the Leigh jigs and it reminded me of using the jig and shop vac a few years ago. One thing that came to mind is the Festool adjustable vacuum. Being able to adjust the suction for each application might be really nice.

Anyone have any opinions on my most important question: will the ambient air around the sander and vacuum be cleaner with the Festool vacuum compared to a shop vac with a Cleanstream filter?

Thanks again,
Dave

[Art Mann]

Dave,

Check your e-mail.

Art

[Joe Mioux]

For cheap,

a PC Quick Sander hooked up to a Shop vac. The only modification is a loop of electrical tape around the port of the PC dust chute. This combination works extremely well. I also have a Makita ROS and I like it better for vibration and smoothness of sanding put its dust chute is too small to accomodate the shop vac.

Also, as i skimmed through the festool gloats, I didn't see anyone mention the Festool Midi vacuum. It is between the ct 22 and the mini.

the difference is a significant price differential. The MIdi is very close to the mini in price, but the midi does not have the filter scraper or the Hepa filter. The midi also has a smaller hopper.

this is according to a salesperson at our local WC store.

joe

ps I really really want one of those Festool vacs!

[David Miller]

Art, I PM'd you. Thanks.

Joe, that's the setup I have now and want to improve the dust removal and filtration. I'd pick the CT 22 because of the HEPA filters. I think I'm starting to want one of those Festool vacs too.

-Dave

[michael osadchuk]

.....check this thread on the Canadian Woodworking Magazine forum

http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/f...ad.php?t=19215

regarding the Rigid 6" ROS models R2610 and R2611......

and also read the more detailed specifications and user reviews on
www.homedepot.ca (the big box's Canadian website)

the speculation is that the R2610 - now apparently no longer available - was a rebranding by Rigid/HD of the Metabo 450sxe and the R2611 in the China built version of that model

.... my comments the R2611 on the canadianwoodworking forum are under the name "michaely"