Walnut finishing schedule

[Ed Jolin]

Hi - I am getting ready to finish a walnut writing desk (simple top/apron/4 legs), and was planning to use the following finishing schedule:

- sand out to 180/220
- bartley gel stain, oil based (re-using some stain from a past project)
- garnet shellac (wood is not well matched, so I'm going for dark - long story)
- superblond shellac to build
- steel wool to rub out the sheen to satin/semigloss
- wax


I would like to also fill the grain, but I'm not sure where in the schedule to do it, or what product (oil/waterbase, and brand?)I should use. Comments?

I've heard of filling as a very first step, or also after a sealer coat is applied. Since I'm staining, I was thinking of doing it first, but not sure. I'm not stuck on using the oil based stain, but it'd be nice since I already have it, unless it adds a lot of finishing time to the filler I would have to use.

Also, when filling pores, do you normally fill the entire piece - or is it acceptable to fill just the top? Since I'm not going for a high gloss, a 100% fill is not critical to me. I have not used grain filler before, but from what I've read here, it can be finicky.


Thanks-
Ed

[Carl Eyman]

I've done a fair amount of walnut and have never used a filler. With mahogany one has to use it if you want to approach a "piano" finish. The last walnut piece I did I dyed with 2 applications of water soluble dye (one to catch the sap wood and the other overall) Then I applied as many coats of garnet shellac as I had to to fill the grain. Finally, I used Behlen's Rockhard Table Top varnish which I rubbed down with Abralon discs and two grades of rubbing compound. I got a good flat surface. While it may have been a tad glossier than you wish, all you have to do is not go with so fine a grade of Abralon. I went 600,1000,2000,and 4000. You could stop whenever you wanted and not have to use the rubbing compound. On the non-flat surfaces I skipped the Varnish and used Waterlox. If you'd like to see a picture of the piece, e-mail or pm me and I'll give you a web site. You'll get a higher definition picture that way.

[Barry Vabeach]

Ed, I love walnut and am I not sure a gel stain is the best move to apply color - gels are ideal for blotchy woods like cherry, but I generally start with a dye for walnut - The dye doesn't obscure the grain and colors pretty evenly. If you have some sap, you can dye that with one color, then coat the whole piece with the color you want and it will look fairly uniform. The last few walnut pieces I did I dyed with a walnut or mahogany dye , then sealed with a 2lb coat of shellac, then used a cherry gel stain as a glaze to get more depth in the color, and finished with a waterbased topcoat. I am no expert, but strongly recommend that you make up a few samples - I usually do it on cutoffs or on the underside of the project that won't show. Barry

[Rob Amadon]

Ed.
Not only is it acceptable to only fill the top, it is a common practice even if you are going for a high gloss finish. I think that the blond shellac may be unnecessary, the garnet shellac will not add to much color to a wood as dark as walnut. Especially if you take my advice and only apply as much shellac as you need to get an even, glossy film. To much shellac is a bad thing. The thinner the better is a good rule for a shellac finish.

You could easily fill the pores in walnut with the shellac with repeated coats and sanding flat in between.

Rob

[Steven Wilson]

I'm a big fan of shellac but not for pore filling - use a pore filler. I don't think Garnet really adds much to walnut, but orange does. Anyhow, I like to apply a 1 1/2lb cut of shellac to seal it and then apply a dark pore filler (van dyke brown is good, you could even add some black) and then once dry and burnished (burlap) seal it with shellac. The initial shellac sealer will keep the colorant in the pore filler from staining the wood too much but get added contrast from filling the pores. Of course if you don't seal first then the pore filler will stain the piece as well as fill the pores which also looks good. From there the finish coats are up to you. Finishing with shellac (lemon, blonde, whatever) looks great, a good varnish (rock hard table top is very good), or even Arm-R-Seal all look nice. What you should do is prepare a few pieces of scrap with your complete finishing schedule and see what you like.

[Ed Jolin]

Thanks for the comments, guys.
I have just run a couple quick samples (without the filler step), and interestingly enough, the resulting color of stain+garnet = garnet alone. I couldn't tell which was which. I may try again on a larger sample piece, but I was really surprised.

Barry, I may have some dye to try; funny you mentioned gel stains for cherry - as that was why I used it for my last project.

Steven - What filler product do you use? is it water or oil based? I'm assuming over shellac or dye I could use either, but over an oil stain, I'd need an oil based filler.

-ed

[Jim Becker]

For grain filling, I'd do it after any color work is sealed with the shellac. Behlen's is the only one I've used and for walnut, it would be the clear, uncolored version.

As to gel stain? This is a product that generally sits on top of the wood and can obsure the grain. If you must color, I'm also a fan of water soluble dye sealed with shellac. I also never color walnut or cherry outside of any effect from the shellac. If you have steamed walnut, then the shellac is almost a requirement to restore life to the wood, but I love it on air-dried walnut as it very nicely highlights the wonderful golden brown that the walnut ages to. (Which is lighter than when you start)

[Carl Eyman]

I have done it on two pieces. I attended the "Working Wood in Eighteenth Century" seminar at Colonial Williamsburg the year they did Tall Clocks. Mack Headley finished the tombstone door for the waist of the clock by applying about a dozen coats of Garnet shellac over the course of two or three days. It looked good to me. Of course, anything Mack does is the last word in my book.

[Jim Becker]

Carl, I've done the same thing on my walnut natural edge pieces...shellac is the only filler; apply, sand back, repeat. Gorgeous.