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Thread: Preparing a Stanley #80

  1. #1
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    Preparing a Stanley #80

    I just came into a Stanley #80 cabinet scraper which I would like to be able to use when the need arises. I'm not much of a hand tool guy-prefer electrons most of the time, but I'm thinking this might be a useful tool. It came without a blade so I got one of the Hock replacement blades. The instructions for the Hock have you sharpening the blade like you would a chisel (without a secondary bevel). Nothing about rolling a burr like you do on a card scraper. Am I missing something? How do you get scraping action without the burr? Also-the blade is far too wide to fit into my LV honing guide, which means I would have to do it by hand. Gulp!

    Any suggestions for getting this tool and blade ready for use? Who knows, if I can get reasonably good at this thing, maybe I'll buy fewer gadgets with tails. Thanks
    Tony

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Sade
    I just came into a Stanley #80 cabinet scraper which I would like to be able to use when the need arises. I'm not much of a hand tool guy-prefer electrons most of the time, but I'm thinking this might be a useful tool. It came without a blade so I got one of the Hock replacement blades. The instructions for the Hock have you sharpening the blade like you would a chisel (without a secondary bevel). Nothing about rolling a burr like you do on a card scraper. Am I missing something? How do you get scraping action without the burr? Also-the blade is far too wide to fit into my LV honing guide, which means I would have to do it by hand. Gulp!

    Any suggestions for getting this tool and blade ready for use? Who knows, if I can get reasonably good at this thing, maybe I'll buy fewer gadgets with tails. Thanks
    The Hock blade makes a big improvement in the 80.

    Sharpen it at 45°, with no burr. Put it in the 80, with the tensioning screw loose. Set it on a flat surface and push the blade down until it just contacts the surface and tighten it in place. Then, snug up the tensioning screw and take maybe an extra half turn on it. That should be all it takes. It oughtta cut some beautiful, transparent shavings.

  3. #3
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    I was taught to set the iron up just like you do card scrapers, do in part becuase of the higher iron set. I have never sharpen the iron like you do a set of chisel's so can not comment on that.

    DonnieR

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DeLaney
    The Hock blade makes a big improvement in the 80.

    Sharpen it at 45°, with no burr. Put it in the 80, with the tensioning screw loose. Set it on a flat surface and push the blade down until it just contacts the surface and tighten it in place. Then, snug up the tensioning screw and take maybe an extra half turn on it. That should be all it takes. It oughtta cut some beautiful, transparent shavings.
    Jim,

    I have never heard of this method of sharpening a blade for a Stanley 80, but I'm all ears! Does this work better for you than a hook? And one more question, how sharp is sharp? Your method sounds really easy!

    Gene

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Collison
    Jim,

    I have never heard of this method of sharpening a blade for a Stanley 80, but I'm all ears! Does this work better for you than a hook? And one more question, how sharp is sharp? Your method sounds really easy!

    Gene

    No hook needed. 'Scary Sharp' works just fine, although I use a Tormek and a home-built jig for mine.

    Patrick Leach's "Stanley Blood & Gore" site has detailed instructions under his #80/12/112 descriptions.

    <Center><A HREF="http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm">Stanley Blood & Gore</A></Center>

  6. #6
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    It should be filed at 45 degrees ....remove the burr with a 1000 grit stone. Poilish the bevel as well...Then turn over a hook with a burnisher to about 15 degrees.Always unstall from the bottom into the body.The bevel faces the thumbscrew.Hold blade down while tightening screws . Thumb screw should start loose...add as the hook is loses sharpness. That should do it!
    "All great work starts with love .... then it is no longer work"

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Jim DeLaney
    No hook needed. 'Scary Sharp' works just fine, although I use a Tormek and a home-built jig for mine.

    Patrick Leach's "Stanley Blood & Gore" site has detailed instructions under his #80/12/112 descriptions.

    <Center><A HREF="http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm">Stanley Blood & Gore</A></Center>
    Interesting... Mr. Leach does mention having a hook, however.

  8. #8
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    It seems always the case that there is more than one way to do the same thing. I have always put a burr on a #80....it cuts faster and with less bowing of the blade ...which means flatter surface.
    Here is an article by Kelly Mehler for Fine Woodworking...There is a better one called "Souped Up Scraper" also by Kelly...it appears in "Bench Tools " by fine woodworking both show a "burr"

    7. SCRAPER PLANES

    (See also: Scraper Holders) Scraper planes are a special type of scraper holder which combine the flat sole and fixed cutting angle of a plane with the fine cutting action of a scraper. These planes require a specialized honing/burnishing process, due to the fact that the scraper edge is not square -- it is cut at a 45 degree angle. Scraper planes share the same advantages as the simpler scraper holders, i.e. keeping your thumbs from burning/cramping, as well as the additional advantages of maintaining a constant cutting angle and preventing digging in the corner of the scraper. The angled cutting edge also allows a thinner, sharper hook to be turned, allowing the scraper to cut very aggressively. Unfortunately, the disadvantage of the scraper planes over the scraper holder is even more pronounced -- there are only two sharpened edges on the scraper instead of four, and the edges are much shorter than on a normal hand scraper. This means resquaring is required much more often, with the corresponding loss in productive time. On the plus side, the thinner hook made possible by the angled edge usually lasts longer between burnishings. Scraper planes come in three basic categories:
    • Simple gull-winged holders with a fixed angle, as typified by the Stanley #80.
    • Adjustable pitch models with a T-handle, as typified by the Stanley #12.
    • Adjustable pitch models with the configuration of a bench plane, as typified by the Stanley #112 and #212.
    Each of these types is still in production (Stanley still produces the #80, Kunz makes a #80, #12 and #112 copy, and Lie Nielsen makes a very nice #212 copy), and there are also many of these available on the vintage tool market. 7.1 SCRAPER PLANE EDGE PREPARATION

    Edge preparation for a scraper plane is very similar to that of an ordinary rectangular hand scraper. It involves the same three steps of squaring, honing and burnishing, but each step must be done in a slightly different manner due to the fact that the end of the scraper is angled. Click here for a description of the edge preparation process for hand scrapers) The first major difference in edge preparations is how the edge is squared. A mill bastard file is still used to remove the burr, but now the end of the scraper is angled. To accurately file the edge, a jig is an absolute necessity. I use a variation of the simple jig described above, only with a 45 degree bevel where the scraper rests, as such (in profile): As before, the file rests in the rabbet on the top, and the scraper rests against the front (beveled) face. I also like to cut a bit of relief where the file meets the scraper, to give the filings a place to collect. Some woodworkers like to file one edge of their scraper plane slightly convex (new Stanley #80's come from the factory like this), in order to allow the scraper to take a deeper cut. If you wish to prepare an edge like this, it simply means that the squaring jig will have to move along the curve, just as for a curved hand scraper. Another difference in the squaring of scraper planes is that a greater amount of material will typically need to be removed. The burr is normally much longer on the scraper plane, so it will take a bit more work to remove it. Also, it is very important that the file is only used on the edge -- DO NOT FILE THE SCRAPER FACE. It is tempting to save some preparation time by simply filing the burr flat to the face, but this will not leave the edge sharp enough to turn a decent burr. Honing a scraper plane blade is also quite different. In most respects, the honing process for scraper planes is like that used for a plane iron or chisel -- both the back of the cutting edge and the bevel are honed through a progressively finer series of stones. Just as with the square edge, it is very important that the edge is not rounded over-the squaring jig above can be used to maintain the proper angle, or one of the commercial chisel honing guides can be used. A microbevel is not needed (and actually may hurt performance) on a scraper plane. Burnishing the scraper plane iron is actually simpler than the burnishing process for a hand scraper. Since the angled edge is already quite sharp, there is no reason to draw a burr-the edge can be turned immediately after honing. Note that the burnishing angle for this type of scraper is measured AWAY from the face, rather than towards the face (as it is with hand scrapers). This means that the angle between the face of the iron and the burnisher should always be greater than 90 degrees, as such: To turn the edge of a scraper plane iron, the iron should be held in a vice with the edge to be burnished up. Run a bead of light oil down the edge to prevent the burnisher from galling. Holding the burnisher at the desired angle, make several passes to turn the hook. Note that heavy pressure is not normally needed for scraper planes-the pointed edge typically deforms more easily. Note that the angle of the burnishing is much more important for a scraper plane than for a hand scraper, especially on the models which do not allow you to adjust the angle of attack for iron (like the #80). A bit of experimentation will be necessary to determine the optimal hook angle you are comfortable with, but 15- 20 degrees is a good starting point. I use 15 degrees for my adjustable scraper, and slightly more for my non-adjustable.
    "All great work starts with love .... then it is no longer work"

  9. #9
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    Talking Thanks, Neanderthals!

    To hook, or not to hook. . . (Which is what I meant by "burr".) Guess I'll try it hookless first, then get out my burnisher. I appreciate all the answers.
    Tony

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Sade
    To hook, or not to hook. . . (Which is what I meant by "burr".) Guess I'll try it hookless first, then get out my burnisher. I appreciate all the answers.
    Tony

    Try the scaper without the hook first. It is an easy tool too learn, but if you put a burr on the blade it will get very aggressive. Leave the burr off until you feel comfortable using the tool without the burr.
    Michael in San Jose
    Non confundar in aeternam

  11. #11
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    Ithaca, New York
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    I have a similar tool to the Stanley #80 made by E.C. Stearns and Co., Syracuse, NY. I have attempted to sharpen it several times as I would a hand scraper without success. I wasn't aware of the 45 degree law. However, when I measure the angle described by the blade with the bench top, it's more like 70 degrees than 45 degrees. Do I sharpen it at 45 degrees or 70 degrees?

    Regards,

    Bob

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Singer
    It seems always the case that there is more than one way to do the same thing. I have always put a burr on a #80....it cuts faster and with less bowing of the blade ...which means flatter surface.
    Here is an article by Kelly Mehler for Fine Woodworking...There is a better one called "Souped Up Scraper" also by Kelly...it appears in "Bench Tools " by fine woodworking both show a "burr"

    7. SCRAPER PLANES

    (See also: Scraper Holders) Scraper planes are a special type of scraper holder which combine the flat sole and fixed cutting angle of a plane with the fine cutting action of a scraper. These planes require a specialized honing/burnishing process, due to the fact that the scraper edge is not square -- it is cut at a 45 degree angle. Scraper planes share the same advantages as the simpler scraper holders, i.e. keeping your thumbs from burning/cramping, as well as the additional advantages of maintaining a constant cutting angle and preventing digging in the corner of the scraper. The angled cutting edge also allows a thinner, sharper hook to be turned, allowing the scraper to cut very aggressively. Unfortunately, the disadvantage of the scraper planes over the scraper holder is even more pronounced -- there are only two sharpened edges on the scraper instead of four, and the edges are much shorter than on a normal hand scraper. This means resquaring is required much more often, with the corresponding loss in productive time. On the plus side, the thinner hook made possible by the angled edge usually lasts longer between burnishings. Scraper planes come in three basic categories:
    • Simple gull-winged holders with a fixed angle, as typified by the Stanley #80.
    • Adjustable pitch models with a T-handle, as typified by the Stanley #12.
    • Adjustable pitch models with the configuration of a bench plane, as typified by the Stanley #112 and #212.
    Each of these types is still in production (Stanley still produces the #80, Kunz makes a #80, #12 and #112 copy, and Lie Nielsen makes a very nice #212 copy), and there are also many of these available on the vintage tool market. 7.1 SCRAPER PLANE EDGE PREPARATION

    Edge preparation for a scraper plane is very similar to that of an ordinary rectangular hand scraper. It involves the same three steps of squaring, honing and burnishing, but each step must be done in a slightly different manner due to the fact that the end of the scraper is angled. Click here for a description of the edge preparation process for hand scrapers) The first major difference in edge preparations is how the edge is squared. A mill bastard file is still used to remove the burr, but now the end of the scraper is angled. To accurately file the edge, a jig is an absolute necessity. I use a variation of the simple jig described above, only with a 45 degree bevel where the scraper rests, as such (in profile): As before, the file rests in the rabbet on the top, and the scraper rests against the front (beveled) face. I also like to cut a bit of relief where the file meets the scraper, to give the filings a place to collect. Some woodworkers like to file one edge of their scraper plane slightly convex (new Stanley #80's come from the factory like this), in order to allow the scraper to take a deeper cut. If you wish to prepare an edge like this, it simply means that the squaring jig will have to move along the curve, just as for a curved hand scraper. Another difference in the squaring of scraper planes is that a greater amount of material will typically need to be removed. The burr is normally much longer on the scraper plane, so it will take a bit more work to remove it. Also, it is very important that the file is only used on the edge -- DO NOT FILE THE SCRAPER FACE. It is tempting to save some preparation time by simply filing the burr flat to the face, but this will not leave the edge sharp enough to turn a decent burr. Honing a scraper plane blade is also quite different. In most respects, the honing process for scraper planes is like that used for a plane iron or chisel -- both the back of the cutting edge and the bevel are honed through a progressively finer series of stones. Just as with the square edge, it is very important that the edge is not rounded over-the squaring jig above can be used to maintain the proper angle, or one of the commercial chisel honing guides can be used. A microbevel is not needed (and actually may hurt performance) on a scraper plane. Burnishing the scraper plane iron is actually simpler than the burnishing process for a hand scraper. Since the angled edge is already quite sharp, there is no reason to draw a burr-the edge can be turned immediately after honing. Note that the burnishing angle for this type of scraper is measured AWAY from the face, rather than towards the face (as it is with hand scrapers). This means that the angle between the face of the iron and the burnisher should always be greater than 90 degrees, as such: To turn the edge of a scraper plane iron, the iron should be held in a vice with the edge to be burnished up. Run a bead of light oil down the edge to prevent the burnisher from galling. Holding the burnisher at the desired angle, make several passes to turn the hook. Note that heavy pressure is not normally needed for scraper planes-the pointed edge typically deforms more easily. Note that the angle of the burnishing is much more important for a scraper plane than for a hand scraper, especially on the models which do not allow you to adjust the angle of attack for iron (like the #80). A bit of experimentation will be necessary to determine the optimal hook angle you are comfortable with, but 15- 20 degrees is a good starting point. I use 15 degrees for my adjustable scraper, and slightly more for my non-adjustable.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Perth, Australia
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    9,469
    I have a couple of Stanley #80s and a #112. Their blades are similar but not interchangeable and all are preferred for use with just a 45 degree bevel (no hook).

    I think that one advantage of setting them this way is that you can get a better finish than a surface scraped with a hooked blade, simply because the hooked blade cannot be set up as flat as the non-hooked blade. While the hook makes the scraper cut more aggressively, a well-sharpened non-hook blade can cut nearly as aggressively.

    The original Stanley blades are very ordinary when compared with aftermarket blades, such as those from Hock or LN. These hold their sharpness longer and, because they are thicker, are less susceptible to chatter. My #112 uses a LN "Stanley Replacement" blade, which is slightly thinner than the standard LN blade (too thick to fit the Stanley mouth). My two #80s (one for smoothing and one for scraping glue lines) use blades I made out of old circular saw blades.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

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