What would you do?

[Michael Gibbons]

A few weeks back, my Father in law left a message with my wife that he wants to talk to me (uh-oh). I go down to his house and said What's Up? He began telling me of this great idea he had that involves me making new cabinets for his shop while he and mother are dwn in Florida for the winter. While that in itself is no big deal, my wife was talking me a few days ago and said that she is supposed to let him know when I've hit the $1,000.00 mark. I said the maple butcher block tops that he want's are over $1,200.00 by themselves. So I sat down and went through the price catalog and priced out everything I would need to complete it including tax and added in a $250.00 fudge factor. and the amount was $2,900.00. I handed him the sheet and I thought he was going to keel over right there. Needless to say he is very cheap- a trait that is ingrained in him and all his brothers and sisters who were very poor as children. He likes nice stuff but hates to pay for it. I'm basically letting him decide and tell me before he leaves. I am also not willing to do the project any other way because I want the cabinets to last and look great. The entire amount needs to be in my hands all at once so I can order what I need all at the same time.

Whats your idea? Did I do right ?`

[Ed Breen]

Michael, Well Done!!! The only thing you left out was the premium for his relaxation in the sunny south while he knows his fav son in law is taking care of business.
Ed

[Matt Crew]

I've had the same situation with family members cars.
You don't want to skimp on anything because it will come back to bite you in the long run.
The last thing you want is to hear is how things didn't measure up to his expectations.
Better to have it up front and open, than try to make it work at the budget he sets and have things tur out sub par.

[Scott Kilroy]

Remind him that in olden times you would have received a dowry for taking a daughter off his hands

Seriously I think you didn't the best thing possible. I deal with cheap clients in my line of work (computers not woodworking) and cheap friends/acquaintances when it comes to woodworking and I think it's best to give the person making the request as much control as possible over the cost beforehand.

[Matt Meiser]

This sounds familiar, only in my case it involves my parents and their bathroom. What I've been doing is having them buy everything up front. In fact today we are going to get the wood for the cabinets. Other than flooring which they are supposed to order this week, we have all the major stuff stored in their basement. All the incidentals--plumbing supplies, etc they are supposed to set aside some money for and leave with me, and we have an understanding that if I have to pay for stuff they need to pay me back within the credit card cycle so I don't have to pay for stuff out of my pocket.

I've also been making lots of jokes about my $75/hr rate.

[jason lambert]

I have the exact same situation! Perfectly handled those people are hard to deal with, I can say that because mind is my father. Make sure he know what to expect as well and tell him if he was paying for labor for someone to do it it would be over the cost of materials in labor alone.

The trouble is my father always uses my tools and then when he uses a saw blade till the point it is unusable and dull he will not replace it, he tells me it is fine and not his fault he didn't dull it for the couple of cuts he made then tells me I shouldn’t buy $70 blades anyhow! Gotta keep him out of my shop but it is hard.

Be careful doing work for people like that and don't low ball yourself. Give him the list and tell him if he can get the stuff for less go head and you will put it in.

[glenn bradley]

You did right. I beat the "set proper expectations" theme into folks at work until they are sick of it. A person is always going to be happier (even if not really happy) when they pay what they expect as opposed to getting a cheap job or a higher bill. Ya done good. There are some folks who do kitchens for a living on the forum and I garuntee they couldn't/wouldn't do it for a grand.

[Scott Kilroy]

The trouble is my father always uses my tools and then when he uses a saw blade till the point it is unusable and dull he will not replace it, he tells me it is fine and not his fault he didn't dull it for the couple of cuts he made then tells me I shouldn’t buy $70 blades anyhow! Gotta keep him out of my shop but it is hard.

I thought stuff like this is what the blade that came with the saw is for. I've got a couple of friends who use my shop and they have the choice of buying their own blades or using my sears craftsman junk blades, of course with your father that might be a hard line to take.

[Al Willits]

Try being in the HVAC/appliance repair industry once...

You did find imho, I have a even more direct approach, I either do it free (not likey on spendy items) or I charge them the going rate, been woke up at 3 am one to many times by relatives or friends with AC or Heating problems after I worked on their system 3 or 4 years before that.
Seems once you work on their stuff, its suppose to last forever and if not, your suppose to fix it free and at a moments notice.


One was after I told him his compressor was going out and to replace it before it got hot again, he waited two years and called on a 102 degree Sunday evening...

Seems friends and relatives are the worse ones to deal with.

Al

[Tom Veatch]

For the OP, you did fine under the circumstances. Nothing there to have second thoughts about.

...
Seems friends and relatives are the worse ones to deal with.
...

Which is why I try to avoid business dealings with friends or family and, when circumstances warrant, advise others to adopt/maintain that same policy. Prevents most of those 3:00 am phone calls and taking the hit for the unrealistic expectations of others.

[John Zee]

Sounds good. But whatcha gonna charge to install them? Are they finished or paint grade? Are you doing that as well?

[Steve LaFara]

Maybe I'm a little different but I look at doing stuff for parents and in-laws almost as a payback for the hundreds of thousands of dollars they spent raising you or your spouse, plus you will likely get it back plus interest when they pass away. They might just move in with you some day and you can use the cabinets yourself.

I understand that we all can not afford to give them whatever they want, but at the same time, you can tell them there are two options. You can make the cabinets out of c grade plywood from the Borg for his $1200 or do it the "right" way, which is the way he taught you as a child to allways do, but that's gonna cost more. His decision. My Dad always said that if it wasn't worth doing it right the first time, it was'nt worth doing at all.

Good luck, and I'm sure that no matter what you end up making, they will be very appreciative of them.

[Corey Wilcox]

Michael,

You couldn't have done it better. The way you handled it will let him make the decision on what level of quality he wants and he can see that you didn't invent a price tag to try and take advantage of him. Likewise, you aren't stuck gluing together cut offs from the local pallet mill to make up enough "boards" to build him some cabinets. Sometimes people just don't realize that these things do cost money.

He must be looking for some extensive counter tops to total $1200 alone. Or maybe they're actual butcher block (end grain)?

[Peter Quadarella]

Steve, a lot of people hold your point of view, but I think it leads to trouble in most cases.

For one, children should not be held responsible for any "payback". Parents have children for their own reasons, and the last thing I would want for my children is to feel they need to pay me back monetarily.

Secondly, expecting your parents to leave you money in their will as a payback for your work is even worse. Many parents don't have money to leave to their heirs, and others expect their kids to rely on their own footing and have a plan to spend it all before they go. Besides, with medical science the way it is, you could be 80 before your parents go these days.

Doing stuff for free most often leads to bad feelings down the line, as people always want more than you are willing to give, and when times are rough and you could really help you expect payback in kind. Then when you don't have the time to help because you are busy with important clients or something similar, bad feelings are generated because you did it last time. Generally all kinds of expectations get set on all sides and over the years more bad then good tends to come from it - in my humble opinion. Maybe not now, but wait 20 or 30 years...

Of course, doing the ocasional act of goodwill for someone is always nice

[Roy Hatch]

Michael, I had to smile when I read your post, as you describe a scene that's been played many times. Your response was what I would have suggested. If I could make a suggestion, it would have been to add that if he wanted it done for less he should check with another craftsman. I assume he knows your price will be less and he will grudgingly accept your terms.

Please let us hear "The Rest of the Story".

Roy