Worm drive vs. "regular" circular saw

[Greg Cole]

Mike,
The other thing you'll find if you haven't used any L-Ion tools is the longevity of a charge (also no memory to the battery). I still am amazed at how many cuts I can make in a charge. The LED for battery life is a novel idea that more manufacturers outta pick up on..... and the saw works 100% until the battery is dead, no falling off.
The individual pieces are expensive if bought solo, so I opted for the 4 piece kit... the saw-z-all is on par with the tailed version & the drill is as good as a 1/2" corded Milwaukee hole-shooter which is a fairly powerful drill. Kit was @ $700 IIRC. FWIW first use of the sawall was cutting off gutters on the house & within 30 seconds of the saw going up on the roof my helper (aka my Dad) set the saw-z-all free from @ 25 feet. It stuck in the ground blade first like lawn dart & never missed a beat but only missed the concrete driveway by @ 4".....

Greg

[Tim Marks]

I have a bosch 1677 worm drive circular saw, built like a tank and just as heavy. If you need to do framing or build a porch, and never want to slow down when you hit wet 2x4 and 4x4s, it is the way to go.

If you want a saw to break down sheet goods, it is WAY overkill. You don't need a heavy saw like this in 1/4 or 1/2 plywood; a conventional circular saw will take it in stride without bogging down. And you can even get left sided blade direct-drive circular saw.

To give my arm a rest, I bought a Porter Cable 325MAG saw. It has an electric brake which stops the blade in seconds after you let go of the trigger, and feels like half the weight of my bosch. You can get the left blade version as the 423MAG saw (without the brake?). I bought it based upon strong recommendations here (and even Dino likes it over on the EZ forum).

If you HAVE to have a worm drive saw for breaking down sheet goods, then look at the Porter Cable 314. It is a 4.5" worm drive, left blade saw that weighs 8# (same as my 325MAG). Light weight, extremely compact, and the torque of a worm drive.

[Eric DeSilva]

I thought about a WD saw recently, but ended up buying a TS55 instead. Strikes me that the WD target is the construction trades, esp. roofers, deckers and timber framers. That much torque comes at a serious price in weight, and my intended purpose was breaking down sheet goods.

That said, if you are using a lot of solid hardwoods, a WD may come in handy there. I seem to recall noting to myself, in one David Mark's Woodworks episodes, that he used a WD to rough cut thick hardwoods before surfacing.

If you are interested in WD saws, I recall Fine Homebuilding did a review of a bunch of WD saws within the last couple months.

[Jason White]

I've had a couple of "sidewinders" and hated them both (a cheapo Skil and a newer Porter Cable).

I now have a Bosch 1677M worm-drive. It's heavy, but you use the weight to your advantage when doing framing work. If you're cutting sheet goods, the weight is a non-issue. I use the Bosch for framing and general carpentry work and my Festool TS55 for the "fine" woodworking.

And, no, I'm not a pro. Same boat as you. Spend the money and get a great circ saw. You won't regret it.

JW

What are the pros/cons of a worm drive saw vs a regular circular saw? I have always used my B&D circa 1971 and never used a worm drive. I am getting ready to replace my circular saw with something less than 40 years old.

Thoughts?

I am not a pro, just a dedicated weekend warrior that has no fear tackling just about anything from framing to landscaping to deck building.

Thanks,

Mike

[Rob Will]

So many people always think that a worm drive saw is simply a left side blade saw - Yes it is and it isn't - "Worm Drive" refers to the gear that runs the saw - It is a worm drive gear - If you ever open one up you will see how it works - All other circular saws are direct drive - The blade shaft is running right out of the motor - A Worm drive saw has the motor mounted to the side and rear - The motor shaft turns a gear which transmits power to the blade

Actually, ALL portable saws use a gear reduction. On a conventional saw the motor axis is parallel to the blade shaft. Power is transmitted through a set of helical cut spur gears. On a worm drive saw the motor shaft is rotated 90 degrees in relation to the blade shaft. Power is transmitted through a worm and gear set. The motors are pretty much the same thing but the worm drive version probably has more tooth contact area in the gear set and a lower gear ratio resulting in slightly lower speed / higher torque at the blade arbor.

Rob

[Chuck Lenz]

Has anyone here tried a "rear-tilt" saw - something like the one in my previous post?
Just wondering because I really like mine..... It has a good feel.

Rob

I purchased a Milwaukee 6391 Tilt-Lok last summer, haven't used it yet. It's not a rear pivot, but the handle pivots. http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba..._192208_192137#

[Rob Will]

I purchased a Milwaukee 6391 Tilt-Lok last summer, haven't used it yet. It's not a rear pivot, but the handle pivots. http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba...192208_192137#

That's pretty slick. I had not seen one of those.
Rob

[Chuck Burns]

Many years back when I was shopping for a circular saw, my father said to spend the dough on worm-drive so I picked up a Skil Magnesium one (slightly lighter than the arm-busting one they sell) because he said they will LAST LONGER than a conventional circular saw. I've had mine for 10 years now and it gets good use but check back with me in another 10-20 years to see if what my father claims is true.

Your Dad was right. My Skill 77 is 35 years old. I can't even undterstand how anybody uses a sidewinder with the blade on the right side. For light use I have a Milwaukee V28 cordless sidewinder with the blade on the left - where it is supposed to be! And the main reason I like that is that it is so quiet and light.

[Chuck Burns]

For easier butting of sheet goods I use my V28 cordless Milwaukee, it's much more of a real circ caw than many of the little panel cutters with 4 1/2" blades as the MKE has a 6 1/4" blade and as much power as a corded direct drive. It's a feather compared to the #77 and has the blade in the "right" spot on the left side (err correct side for a righty anyway). Another thing I really like about the cordless Milwaukee is the brake on the motor. I can't get over the "umph" the 28V has (I've ripped sopping wet 2X10 pressure treated with it and it didn't flinch ).

Greg

Greg, I,ve got a V28 in addition to my 77 and love them both. For a cordless tool the V28 is amazing. It won't replace a 77 but it has it's own uses.

[Chuck Burns]

So many people always think that a worm drive saw is simply a left side blade saw - Yes it is and it isn't - "Worm Drive" refers to the gear that runs the saw - It is a worm drive gear - If you ever open one up you will see how it works - All other circular saws are direct drive - The blade shaft is running right out of the motor - A Worm drive saw has the motor mounted to the side and rear - The motor shaft turns a gear which transmits power to the blade - This setup make it almost impossible to stop the blade due to minor binding - It creates a transfer of power to the blade that can handle much harder use then a conventional direct drive saw - I worked as a carpenter for 20 years before I became a Contractor then a Custom Door and Sash Builder - I have seen a lot of direct drive saws end up in the dumpster while that heavy worm drive just kept humming along - The other reason the blade is on the left side is it is how we layout in the field - We pull our tapes from the left to the right and can cut to the line in a more effective manner - If you are going to own just one circular saw for the purpose of framing and decking I would strongly recommend the Worm Drive - Skil make the most popular - Bosch makes a good one too - Just don't buy the one with the cord that can be disconnected at the saw - If you are working overhead cutting rafter tails while doing the "Batman" thing off a ladder and your cord falls off the back of your saw you will know what being really ticked off is when you make that trip down and up the ladder for the 4th or 5th time - lol - Hoped this helped

Frank,
I find a lot of people don't know how to use a worm drive saw; they want to push it like a sidewinder rather than letting the weight of the saw do the work as often as possible.

[Steven DeMars]

I have a worm drive Skill 77 . . . Have had it for 20 years, it still works like a champ . . . Now days they are probably made in China out of old beer cans with recycled treadmill motors . . .

Aside from that, the weight and power is really nice.... If you don't need the weight and power go for a small blade panel saw . . .

Steve

[Bob Feeser]

I have the Bosch 1677M-100 7 1/4" Worm Drive. Sorry about keep mentioning reviews at Amazon, but I was a tool buying fanatic, yeah had a bad case of tool buying fever for a few years, but I used to research the heck out of every tool before buying it. So I became, due to no fault of my own, one of the top 500 reviewers at Amazon. Actually I hit number 150 out of over 60 million Amazonians, but have not been contributing very much for a while. So here goes, if you want to read my review on the Bosch 1677 Worm drive, Amazon chose it as there most helpful review, and featured it on this page. I really love the saw. It's artwork.


The real beauty of it is how unbelievably quiet it is for a circular saw, and it cuts a straight line by itself, at least it seems to, instead of the typical circular saw experience, of trying to follow the line, it veers off a little bit, so you force steer it back on track, or back it up a little then proceed, leaving an uneven also, then the blade wants to bind in the cut, and jump out of the track and kick back at you. I do not experience that with the Bosch worm drive. Like I said, aim it right to start, and it almost cuts along the line for you.

The realizable difference between a standard circular saw and a worm drive are several. A worm drive has a transmission, which gears it down. It is like trying to climb that hill in your car in first gear instead of fourth. So it is slower but has a lot more torque. You can get through some wicked stock without any complaints from the saw. The problem is that the transmission weighs more. So it is heavier to lug around.

Interestingly, SkilSaw was bought by Bosch, so they make both. The SkilSaw has a 13 amp motor, the Bosch a 15. The
Bosch which has more magnesium in it, weighs a couple of pounds lighter than the Skil as well. The SkilSaw has been a construction standard for a long time. The Bosch costs only 20 or 30 dollars more than the Skil, at least the last time I looked it did, and you get a more powerful motor, and lighter weight. They are both great saws.
The other thing about the Bosch worm drive is its incredible accuracy. The shoe plate is perfectly paralell to the blade, so you can straight edge off of one side of the shoe plate, and know you are getting a blade that is cutting perfectly paralell to your straight edge. Makes it possible to use a higher tooth blade, and get crazy smooth cuts.
The blade angle was set up nicely from Bosch and is fully adjustable, so yes it cuts a perfect 90 as well. I would not hesitate to use this to do finish grade woodwork, and sometimes do.

As far as handling goes, the rear handle worm drive is great to get behind, and plow through your cut. If you are up on a ladder, or in a position that you have to make a left to right cut across the front of you, the rear handle position is workable but not ideal. So Milwaukee came out with a circular saw with an adjustable handle. So it becomes a top handle, as well as a rear handle, and a few positions in between I think. (I don't own one)

Finallyl, I ran into a framer in Home Depot one day, and was asking him for some input on what he liked to use on the job site, and he mentioned that the Porter Cable 314 4.5amp 4 1/2" trim saw is what he uses for everything. That is also a worm drive. Some of the reviews at Amazon reveal that the sole plate is not properly aligned with the blade, and that it did not hold up cutting 2" oak, but the carpentar in Home Depot claimed it went through everything. (He is most likely cutting 2/12's max 1 1/2" material of soft pine. He loved it because it was so lightweight. (It only weighs 7 pounds, as compared to 15 for the Bosch) yet had the added torque of a worm drive, although it only started out at 4.5 amps. I see Norm Abrams using one on the New Yankee Workshop all of the time. He does it for his precision cuts in the shop as a light duty saw. If you can work out the bugs of sole plate misalignment, depending on your needs, that may be a saw to have.
Maybe I am giving you way more information that you are looking for, but when I am buying something, the more I know, the better off I am.

[Matt Schell]

another vote for the worm drive. definitely heavier, torgier and unfortunately more expensive. even the mag77 is no lightweight, but for day to day framing abuse the worm is the way to go.

while were on the subject if i remember correctly i read an article years ago (fine hb i think) that said west coast framers bought more worm drives and east coast framers buy more sidewinders. according to the article they claimed east coasters used sawhorses more often while west coasters cut on the ground (one end propped on a foot)

now i am on the east coast and the really hardcore framers that i know use a wormdrive but anyway.

one last note, having a little (4.5") saw can be really convenient but not as your only saw.

[Chuck Burns]

while were on the subject if i remember correctly i read an article years ago (fine hb i think) that said west coast framers bought more worm drives and east coast framers buy more sidewinders. according to the article they claimed east coasters used sawhorses more often while west coasters cut on the ground (one end propped on a foot)

now i am on the east coast and the really hardcore framers that i know use a wormdrive but anyway.

Matt,
You mentioned "propped up on one foot" and are correct. I framed houses for a few years (West Coast) and that was how most lumber was cut. If guys reading these posts have never hung around a stick-bilt construction site and watched a good framing crew in action they should. It would be an education. The weight of the saw does the cutting, you only hold the saw with one hand on the rear handle (the left hand is supporting the lumber) and from there you guide the cut as the saw "falls" thu the lumber. It's fast, easy and accurate. I haven't framed for thirty years but that is still how I cut lumber.

There are very few tools out there that will take abuse like a Skill 77 and keep on working. About the only other thing I can think of is the various Milwaukee 1/2 drills. I've got a couple of them that have been pushed awfully hard and are still going strong after 35 years.

[Chris Friesen]

I can't even undterstand how anybody uses a sidewinder with the blade on the right side.

99% of my cuts are along a straightedge so I don't need to see the blade. With the blade on the right side of the saw, and the saw on my right side, the sawdust is ejected away from me.

Also, the bulk of the saw foot (and thus the weight of the saw) is on the same piece of material as the straightedge, so I don't need to worry as much about the waste piece at the end of the cut.