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Thread: More fun with plywood

  1. #1

    Angry More fun with plywood

    It's been four or five years since I have had a shop and worked with birch ply. Now I have a new 30x50 shop (discussed in another thread) and I am in the middle of building cabinets/drawers/bookcase for the house.

    At the old shop in Central Florida, I had a local mom/pop lumberyard where I bought all of my wood from and always got really nice birch plywood, or they would order whatever I wanted.

    I realize crappy plywood has been the subject of other threads, but my knickers are in such a twist I need an outlet This post is not a rant about buying foreign goods per say, it is a report about working with simply awful plywood.

    It was quite a surprise for me (living under a rock for a few years) to see the DIY big boxes carrying Chinese "cabinet" plywood. I bought a few sheets for building workshop projects and I was amazed at how thin the veneer was, wavy, voids, etc, etc (all the problems previously reported.) I was also picking tiny splinters out of my hands literally all of the time after handling the wood after a cut.

    Back to the house projects...

    I found a hardwood supplier and made the 70 mile trip (we're out in the boonies) a couple of weeks ago and bought several sheets of Russian 1/2" Baltic birch for drawers, and several sheets of domestic 3/4" birch plywood (~$70/sheet) for the bookcase. The domestic ply was made in Oregon (I think) and is just beautiful - clear, straight, no apparent voids, thick veneer. The Baltic birch is also quite nice - I build nine drawers with it and had no issues.

    Couldn't bear the thought about building the cabinet carcass out of such beautiful and expensive domestic ply since the carcass will be essentially out of sight unless a drawer is opened. So I bought more Chinese ply for the carcass and oh my gosh - what a nightmare working with it. I made dadoes and rabbits for the joints and I had problems with the wood breaking when trying to assemble the sides, and the thickness was different, so my boxes are off slightly from one another. When I designed the drawers, I had to make them about 1/16" narrower than I wanted due to one box being off dimension, so I might need to put a washer here and there when mounting the drawer slides. I will also have to use the "carpenter's friend" (wood putty) where the veneer splintered. Sigh....

    This was so problematic, I have decided to only use the Chinese ply for workshop projects.

  2. #2
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    Now you know why I'm building my carcasses with BB ply. I'll take reasonably consistency over agony any day! And honestly, I don't think I'd use the cheap ply even for shop cabinetry. One, I don't want to encourage them to keep trying to sell it to me and two, my second sentence still applies for shop-focused work. I have little enough time in the shop as it is, so I don't want to fight tools nor materials.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
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    I'm with you on this John. I hate working with the overseas plywood. The oak I have gotten from Lowes has been pretty decent, but the birch from HD has been horrible. Really bad voids and what I hate the most is the plys that overlap each other!
    Mike Marcade
    Senior Mechanical Engineer
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    Dell Inc.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Marcade View Post
    ...but the birch from HD has been horrible. Really bad voids and what I hate the most is the plys that overlap each other!
    I've made the same mistake with HD birch, the price was right. Every bow and twist occurred wherever the plys overlapped. Never again, I'll buy the "expensive" stuff from my hardwood supplier. This stuff isn't a savings when you have to use angle iron to flatten out an extension wing for a miter saw stand.


  5. #5
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    I wonder how much ungodly pressure they need to use to smash those plys down as flat as they can get them?
    Mike Marcade
    Senior Mechanical Engineer
    Server Development
    Dell Inc.

  6. #6
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    I've been using the orange borg cabinet grade plywood for my shop cabinet. Yesterday, I swung by my local lumberyard and picked up some 5x5 1/2" birch ply to use for the faces. Surprisingly, it was about $25 a sheet, which seemed pretty good. Man, what a difference.

  7. #7
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    Overseas or not, cheap ply is intended for a different use (not cabinets). I bite the bullet and go for BB. If I cannot justify the cost due to placement or functional requirements, I use MDF. Shop grade runs about $50 a sheet around here and is of a good quality. Any 3/4" ply cheaper than $40 to $50 a sheet would be suspect in today's market IMHO. I feel your pain. I have used BORG luan-ply for pieces not requiring a high joinery strength but, use it right away or it will pretzel on you. It works OK with glue and pocket hole construction for shop cabinets, wood bins, quick utility, shelving units, etc.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


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  8. #8
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    The current project I am doing is using grade B2 maple faced ply from Menard's of all places. It is consistent cores, although only 5, and very thick face veneers. It is flat and has cut and handled very nicely. Bad plywood is a nightmare best left to others.

    I did have one sheet that was not laminated correctly and had a ply separation, but that seemed to be the exception. I found some shop grade birch that was very good but only a few dollars a sheet cheaper than the maple.

    It was $50 a sheet but seems to be very good for cabinets. I also found a local supplier that can order M2 grade melamine but the maple print is $52 a sheet unless I get a very large order.

    Baltic birch has gone up here considerably and is now about $38 for a 5x5 or the same per foot price as the 4x8' BB at Menards.

    Sometimes you get what you pay for, sheet goods seems to be one of those times.

    Joe
    JC Custom WoodWorks

    For best results, try not to do anything stupid.

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  9. #9
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    I'm going to be using some "BirPle" 3/4" ply on some book shelves units I'll be building in the next week or so, under $50.00 a sheet . Birch face on one side C-2 Maple on the other.

    Any of you guys use C-2 Maple ply?? I can get that prefinished as well for a little under $75.00.

    Shop Birch is to up and down by unit to count on it's "quality" on a job that's being sold. For my own home use I like the C-2 Maple or similar quality.

    I do not buy plywood or lumber from the Borg / big box guys. Althought of late IF I where in the market for 4x6 D Fir my local Borg has some of the nicest stock I've seen in years I'd guess that just "luck of the draw" on unit ordering , nothing one could count on if you went to another Borg.

  10. #10
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    The only use I've found for that Chinese ply was the floor of my shop. As far as the Baltic Birch goes, I use it all the time in my stereo shop for woofer boxes. I have found it to be out of square by an 1/8th inch or more at times. I can correct that in a woofer box but cabinets it could be an issue. Measure a sheet of your 5x5 birch corner to corner and let us know if you have the same issue I have please? I'm wondering if it's my supplier or if it's a common issue.
    What you listen to is your business....what you hear is ours.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Wyko View Post
    The only use I've found for that Chinese ply was the floor of my shop. As far as the Baltic Birch goes, I use it all the time in my stereo shop for woofer boxes. I have found it to be out of square by an 1/8th inch or more at times. I can correct that in a woofer box but cabinets it could be an issue. Measure a sheet of your 5x5 birch corner to corner and let us know if you have the same issue I have please? I'm wondering if it's my supplier or if it's a common issue.
    I made some drawer faces with it yesterday, which I would say any out of square would show up immediately because I basically gapped them with a nickel. I didn't notice any problems when I screwed them up.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Wyko View Post
    The only use I've found for that Chinese ply was the floor of my shop. As far as the Baltic Birch goes, I use it all the time in my stereo shop for woofer boxes. I have found it to be out of square by an 1/8th inch or more at times. I can correct that in a woofer box but cabinets it could be an issue. Measure a sheet of your 5x5 birch corner to corner and let us know if you have the same issue I have please? I'm wondering if it's my supplier or if it's a common issue.
    I don't expect any factory edge to be true. I've had too many bad experiences with all forms of material. I make my own edge. Of course then I can only blame myself .
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


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  13. #13

    How to Spot "better" hardwood plywood

    As I've posted before, the easiest way that I've found to spot domestic plywood versus Chinese import stuff is to look for the letters "HPVA" stamped or printed on one of the 8' dimensions of all panels 3/8" and thicker. The HPVA is the Hardwood Plywood and Veneer Association and maintains quality standards for domestic manufactures of plywood. In my opinion you're more likely to find quality plywood from a source with quality standards.

    Blake

  14. #14
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    I recently had my first experience with the Borg plywood--it is also my last. Never again. I think I would use corrugated cardboard with better results!
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Chritz View Post
    The current project I am doing is using grade B2 maple faced ply from Menard's of all places. It is consistent cores, although only 5, and very thick face veneers. It is flat and has cut and handled very nicely. Bad plywood is a nightmare best left to others.

    I did have one sheet that was not laminated correctly and had a ply separation, but that seemed to be the exception. I found some shop grade birch that was very good but only a few dollars a sheet cheaper than the maple.

    It was $50 a sheet but seems to be very good for cabinets. I also found a local supplier that can order M2 grade melamine but the maple print is $52 a sheet unless I get a very large order.

    Baltic birch has gone up here considerably and is now about $38 for a 5x5 or the same per foot price as the 4x8' BB at Menards.

    Sometimes you get what you pay for, sheet goods seems to be one of those times.

    Joe
    Joe:

    I have purchased a number of sheets of the birch at Menards and it's pretty good stuff. My only problem is they don't cut anything and at times getting a full sheet home is difficult. Can't beat the price.

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