Saw technique

[Marcus Ward]

Okay so I have a till full of vintage disstons and today I picked up yet another D8 8tpi crosscut saw in really nice shape with a good sharpen on it. Tonight I was cutting some cherry to length for the tabouret I'm making for my wife and I figured what the hey, I'll use a handsaw. I do a lot of operations by hand but typically my cutting is on a tablesaw or miter saw but I'd like to do better with a hand saw. So I start cutting. This plank of cherry is 14" wide and 1" thick. It took forever, the saw always wanted to drift to the right (all my handcuts do that, I must be doing something wrong), and .. .frankly, it wore me out. The blade vibrated on the backstroke a lot (I've heard that means I'm twisting the grip). Can anyone give me some pointers so this is more enjoyable? Handplaning I love, but handsawing.. eh, except for dovetails, I'm not real thrilled so far. I know it's a skill you have to learn so any tips are appreciated.

M

[James Mittlefehldt]

Adam Cherubini did a quick tutorial on sawing in one of his articles for Popular Woodworking. I believe he said if you are rip sawing and you find the saw going off line lower the angle till it lines back up.

Also I was told by an instructor once to stay on a line when handsawing try and look down both sides of the saw at the same time, sounds like a formula to make you go crosseyed, but I found it worked, or at least helped.

If your saw is vibrating I think, and I am no expert, that you are forcing it too much. I struggled for the longest time with sawing, rip sawing in particular, until I had an ephifany, and realized what was meant when those that know said, don't force the saw, guide the saw and it will do the cutting. Until I actually experienced what this truly means I had no idea, but now rip sawing is not a big chore, a tad tedious at times if the board is long but not that difficult.

Use the force Marcus.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Marcus,

The saw you selected to use was at least duller than it should ever be allowed to get. So the first thing is to sharpen it properly. A 1" thick 14" wide piece of Cherry should literally take no more than 1-2 minutes to cross cut using an 8 ppi cross cut.

There are a few things that can cause the vibration. One is improper set. Because the saw is drifting to the one side, it is either the set is heavier on the one side (the right side) or you are indeed rotating the hand. Because the saw took so long to complete the cut, I'm guessing that the dullness and uneven set is a bigger issue than rotation--at least until those things are taken care of, one cannot really correct the possible rotation of the hand. The reason the drift and or rotatino can cause the saw plate to vibrate is the plate is beginning to bind in the cut.

Another cause is simply not relaxing on the back stroke. This causes the teeth to chatter up through the kerf.

Yet another is simply too little set. That is aside from an uneven set. The cure is to reset and sharpen the saw.

Too, if the saw plate is gunked up with "patina," that too causes binding. So if you haven't cleaned up the plates on a vintage saw and want to use it, clean it, polish it up as high as you want to...and use wax.

Before one can work on technique well, the saw(s) need to be in a good enough shape one is not compensating for any deficencies they may have.

Take care, Mike

[Marcus Ward]

Ah! It seemed sharp but apparently wasn't sharp enough. I didn't do a close inspection. Yes there is quite a bit of patina on the blade as well. I imagine I'm not relaxing on the backstroke and I probably need a more proper setup to saw than my workbench. It's too tall for this, I think. Thanks for the information, guys.

[mark adams]

First slow down a lot on the backstroke. You are resetting the saw not sawing in this half of the stroke. Vibration is a great indicator of how much energy you are wasting beyond what the saw is actually transfering into the cut. Pulling back too fast and too soon wastes this feedback. Muscle doesnt cut wood, rhythm does.

You can compensate for hand twisting by holding the work piece closer to the ground. Having your shoulders over the cut forces your elbow out from your torso which makes it physically much harder to twist the saw.

[Bill Houghton]

Mike Wenzloff's point about the state of the saw is critical - my comments below assume that you've got the saw jointed, sharpened, and set properly.

A lot of it is getting started right. Once you're in practice, starting right comes naturally, but until then, or for really important cuts, mark both the edge and the face for your cut, and, once you've started the cut at the corner, alternate low-angle cuts on the edge and the face, running along the line, until you've got a good kerf going. Then move the saw to the normal 45 degrees to the surface and saw away. If you get your kerf started off-line, you'll fight the cut all the way across the board.

Your stance should be relaxed, and your body placed so that your hand and elbow are in line with the saw's motion. Your arm should imitate a steam engine's piston linkage - back and forth in a straight line. No need to make chuffing noises, though.

You don't mention where the plank was when you were cutting. If it was on your bench, or on a sawhorse designed for use with power tools, it was probably too high. You need to be above the wood, far enough for comfort. The classic stance for a handsaw is one knee on the board and the other foot on the ground.

After that, it's the punchline to the joke about how to get to Carnegie Hall: practice, practice, practice. But it's not hard - just getting your body mechanics (and saw, of course) right, and feeling confident enough to relax.

[Bob Smalser]

It took forever, the saw always wanted to drift to the right (all my handcuts do that, I must be doing something wrong), and .. .frankly, it wore me out.

The blade vibrated on the backstroke a lot (I've heard that means I'm twisting the grip).

This isn't complicated. The saw is dull, and you're holding it too hard. Use a light, 3-fingered grip with your index finger pointed down the kerf.

While stoning the sides of the teeth is the usual solution for saws that drift, most don't drift because they are improperly set. Saw sets are easy to use and provide a uniform set. They drift because they were filed with one row of teeth shorter than the other. Joint that saw and see for yourself.



Here's how to sharpen your saws, and the why's and wherefores of what I said above:

Sharpening Handsaws
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=8198

Straightening Bent Handsaws
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=63325

Advanced Saw Filing and Reconditioning
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...highlight=life

[Marcus Ward]

Thanks Bob, I have read and applied your articles to other saws, this one was a recent acquisition and without much inspection I put it to use because it seemed sharp. I will give it a more thorough looking over and see if I can rectify its faults. Also Bill, the plank was far above where I could get my knee on it. It's on a workbench for handtools but still way too high. I will build a pair of dedicated sawhorses and use them from now on. You guys are the best, this advice is indispensable.

[Tim Sgrazzutti]

Marcus, check out the Sept 2006 issue of Woodworking magazine. Chris Schwartz has plans in it for a traditional sawbench that is the proper height for western handsaws. I just built one for my son's 5th birthday, because he begged me to make him a workbench the entire time I was working on my own. For his, I made it 3" wider than the plans, added a vise, and ommitted the ripping notch. I figured if I was going to make him one, it should be something he can actually use, and it's solid enough that I could also work on it sitting down (that is, if I'm not using it for sawing). Here's a pic of it before finishing and adding wood vise jaws.

Regards,

Tim