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Thread: Modding your 1-stage DC for cleaner filters (Workshops)

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by j milana View Post
    I see, but what if there is a high volume of dust/chips? ie: planing or sweeping a large pile of dust/chips into a floor sweep? Is there a problem with clogging?
    I am trying to decide between a single stage dust collector and a cyclone. I would like to save the $$'s if possible, but if a cyclone will pay for itself in the long run with filter cost savings, I will go that route.
    Cyclones seem to have more effective filtering. ie: <1 micron as opposed to the oem canisters at about 2 microns, or do I need to invest in a filter upgrade?
    Thanks for all the helpful input!
    I wouldn't worry too much about the capacity of a baffle-modded DC. It should be able to keep up with whatever you throw at it.

    But quite frankly, if you can afford the bucks for a big cyclone (like an Oneida or ClearView), then perhaps that would be the best way to go?

  2. #17
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    I modded mine and posted it on the workshop forum a month ago. I had an old 2hp grizz. I now directly vent it outside and very little dust escapes and what does blows away. I love it but that being said in a few years when I boild my new shop I will buy or make a cyclone.

    Bob

  3. #18
    Re cyclones, while they're undoubtedly effective at filtering, you can get equally good performance from a standard DC fitted with a .5 micron filter, such as the one I purchased from Wynn Environmental.

    The only downside I see to a cyclone is that when you're producing chips in high volume, the small container fitted to most cyclones will fill very quickly. However, this is somewhat offset by the ease of emptying that container on some designs.

    For my money (which is a very limited resource) a two-stage setup using a home-made 30-gallon chip separator equipped with Phil's baffle, and a .5 micron filter cartridge on a run-of the mill 2 HP DC works extremely well. Floor space considerations make a cyclone very attractive, but alas I have very low ceilings in the shop so a cyclone isn't really practical.
    --Steve--
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sawyer View Post
    For my money (which is a very limited resource) a two-stage setup using a home-made 30-gallon chip separator equipped with Phil's baffle, and a .5 micron filter cartridge on a run-of the mill 2 HP DC works extremely well. Floor space considerations make a cyclone very attractive, but alas I have very low ceilings in the shop so a cyclone isn't really practical.
    I do wonder with a two stage, if Phil or anyone did any Dylos testing, or any other tests, to see what two stage method worked better. Baffle on the chip seperator, with and without a neutral vane, or baffle on the dust collector, but not on the chip seperator?

    Thanks

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
    I do wonder...if Phil or anyone did any Dylos testing, or any other tests
    That might be interesting from an academic standpoint, but I just know that empirically speaking, it works really, really well...
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  6. #21
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    Dome for the baffle?

    Good thread, answers many questions as I'm about to embark on the great baffle pursuit for a PSI 2 hp unit.

    Phil, I see from David's pics that fine dust tends to collect on the flat baffle, which is also made of non-conducting material. This would also collect any dust cleaned from the pleats with the flappers. What about a dome-shaped baffle, especially one made of metal and grounded? I'm wondering if this might reduce the dust buildup and also possibly help with airflow and/or cyclonic action.

    Somewhere in the universe there must be a readily-available dome shape that could be tried for this. Possibilities - bottom of a steel drum or the top of a plastic garbage can covered with aluminum foil, or maybe one made from an arc of sheet metal.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
    I do wonder with a two stage, if Phil or anyone did any Dylos testing, or any other tests, to see what two stage method worked better. Baffle on the chip seperator, with and without a neutral vane, or baffle on the dust collector, but not on the chip seperator?

    Thanks
    Well, the Dylos is ultimately going to be a better test of the final stage filter (the bag or cart. filter that the fines get pushed into).

    To offer a couple of generalizations: (1) Single stage w/ baffle and without NV is going to offer the highest CFM. (2) Adding a 2nd stage (separator in front of DC) is going to take a larger hit to CFM, but provide easier emptying.

    I know of a couple of users that did both. After adding a baffle they saw no perceptible hit to CFM. So they added a trash-can separator in front of their jointers and planers only. The table saw, sander, and any other tools bypass the 2nd stage and go right to the DC.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary McKown View Post
    Good thread, answers many questions as I'm about to embark on the great baffle pursuit for a PSI 2 hp unit.

    Phil, I see from David's pics that fine dust tends to collect on the flat baffle, which is also made of non-conducting material. This would also collect any dust cleaned from the pleats with the flappers. What about a dome-shaped baffle, especially one made of metal and grounded? I'm wondering if this might reduce the dust buildup and also possibly help with airflow and/or cyclonic action.

    Somewhere in the universe there must be a readily-available dome shape that could be tried for this. Possibilities - bottom of a steel drum or the top of a plastic garbage can covered with aluminum foil, or maybe one made from an arc of sheet metal.
    That pic shows the dust clinging to the bottom of the baffle. The top of the baffle stays relatively dust-free.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    Well, the Dylos is ultimately going to be a better test of the final stage filter (the bag or cart. filter that the fines get pushed into).

    To offer a couple of generalizations: (1) Single stage w/ baffle and without NV is going to offer the highest CFM. (2) Adding a 2nd stage (separator in front of DC) is going to take a larger hit to CFM, but provide easier emptying.

    I know of a couple of users that did both. After adding a baffle they saw no perceptible hit to CFM. So they added a trash-can separator in front of their jointers and planers only. The table saw, sander, and any other tools bypass the 2nd stage and go right to the DC.
    Actually, while the Dylos tests the filter, I wondered, if one got more fines, one way or another.
    But, that said, thank you for posting the users experience, and your baffle!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randal Stevenson View Post
    Actually, while the Dylos tests the filter, I wondered, if one got more fines, one way or another.
    But, that said, thank you for posting the users experience, and your baffle!
    I would have to say the unit that is moving more CFM (all other things being equal) would get more fines. I would imagine that would be the modded single-stage, w/o the separator.

    BUT, in my experience, even when I do something stupid in my shop (like running a hand-held tool w/o turning on the vac, or cutting at the table saw w/o turning on the vac), I've learned that recovery for heavily dust-laden air happens pretty quickly.

    I'm not saying I'm not concerned about the fines. I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't let a slight decrease in CFM scare me away from using a pre-separator if the convenience of emptying one appealed to me.

  11. #26
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    [quote=Phil Thien;870130]I wouldn't worry too much about the capacity of a baffle-modded DC. It should be able to keep up with whatever you throw at it.
    I beg to differ on this....I have a 2hp delta chip collector & I added the baffle modification to it. I made it to the dimensions stated earlier in the thread. I found out the metal round ring that the chips come into is not round. The first on I made was round & it didn't come close to fitting. So I used the ring as a template & that worked much better. Also I added a canister filter on top. Last week I was dadoing a lot of mahogany for making screens for my porch. I keep looking at the collector & it didn't seem to be filling up so I pulled the 4" hose off my table saw & no suction. Took the canister off , it was chock full backed up from the baffle. It worked great before & has worked great after that. So has this happened to anyone else ?

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Jolliffe View Post
    it was chock full backed up from the baffle. It worked great before & has worked great after that. So has this happened to anyone else ?
    Not to me. I was used to going over and smacking the sides of my filter cartridge on a regular basis, and seeing the big clumps of dust and chips falling into the collection bag.

    I hooked a Thien-baffle-equipped chip separator for use with my jointer and planer into the "circuit", and was getting almost no dust packed into the filter. When I use my table and band saw (which don't go through the chip separator), I again start to collect noticeable amounts of dust in the filter cartridge.
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  13. #28
    it was chock full backed up from the baffle...


    This is what I am concerned about. I am no physicist, but it seems to me the baffle would make it more difficult for the chips to fall down into the bag and give some dust a direct route up into the filter. Why wouldn't it be better to simply make the hole smaller at the top of the intake and leave the bottom open allowing the chips to swirl their way to the bottom of the bag.
    Just wondering...

  14. #29
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    [quote=Jay Jolliffe;871250]
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Thien View Post
    I wouldn't worry too much about the capacity of a baffle-modded DC. It should be able to keep up with whatever you throw at it.
    I beg to differ on this....I have a 2hp delta chip collector & I added the baffle modification to it. I made it to the dimensions stated earlier in the thread. I found out the metal round ring that the chips come into is not round. The first on I made was round & it didn't come close to fitting. So I used the ring as a template & that worked much better. Also I added a canister filter on top. Last week I was dadoing a lot of mahogany for making screens for my porch. I keep looking at the collector & it didn't seem to be filling up so I pulled the 4" hose off my table saw & no suction. Took the canister off , it was chock full backed up from the baffle. It worked great before & has worked great after that. So has this happened to anyone else ?
    Something aint right. Care to post a couple of pics of your ring with the baffle? If there is a problem perhaps I can spot it. BTW, which Delta do you have? I know some of them have extra lips/ledges which can catch debris.

    And I didn't mean to be flip by saying "handle anything you throw at it." But even with rather large planers, it has been reported that with high feed rates the baffled units have no problem keeping up. And dust from a router should be much finer and easier to get through the drop slot than the large chips from a planer.
    Last edited by Phil Thien; 06-11-2008 at 8:32 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by j milana View Post
    it was chock full backed up from the baffle...


    This is what I am concerned about. I am no physicist, but it seems to me the baffle would make it more difficult for the chips to fall down into the bag and give some dust a direct route up into the filter. Why wouldn't it be better to simply make the hole smaller at the top of the intake and leave the bottom open allowing the chips to swirl their way to the bottom of the bag.
    Just wondering...
    Because reducing that hole size is gonna kill your CFM.

    While the baffle looks pretty simple, it is actually pretty well thought out. And this would be the first report of a clog I've heard of. I suspect his Delta DC has an extra ledge/lip like some I've seen, perhaps he will post some pics for us. I'm sure we can figure it out.
    Last edited by Phil Thien; 06-11-2008 at 10:45 PM.

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