WoodRat Poll

[Glenn Clabo]

Having just recently bought a WoodRat I am amazed at what it can and I’m sure will end up doing. I’m just curious about why there isn’t as much interest in this machine here in North America as there seems to be in other places in the world.

So if you’d just take a minute to take this poll maybe those out there who know how to use it and those of us who are learning about it would benefit from an exchange. If there is no interest…so be it.

For those of you who don't know...this is it.

[Matt Woodworth]

I read on woodshopdemos that it's popular in Europe but they haven't been able to penetrate the American market. I've been reading about the machine lately and I've even ordered and watched their demo cd. According to me, it's basically an upside down router table with full x-y-z movement.

What I liked about it (based on the cd) was that it can do nearly anything. What I didn't like about it is that it didn't seem like an "out of the box" type machine. In comparison, I think I could assemble a Leigh FMT jig and cut perfect mortise and tenons. I could buy a rockler 1/2 blind dovetail jig and cut perfect 1/2 blind dovetail, box joints, etc.

The woodrat requires me to build a jig, build a sample template with marks on it, freehand route it to match the the template, etc. The possibilities are wide open but the "out of the box" solution is incomplete. I normally buy "solutions" while the woodrat is a "platform".

As an owner of the system would you say I'm on target?

[Chris Padilla]

Glenn,

I think the price took care of my interest. John Lucas at woodshopdemos has sold me on A LOT of stuff (Incra, Woodpeckers, Festool, Velvit Oil,CMT, Sommerfelds) and I'm glad he does what he does with the various products. However, he didn't sell me on the WoodRat.

Price, as I said, is probably the number one reason.

Also, wall space is very, very precious in my garage and to be honest, it would take some rearranging to more or less permanently mount the system. Now if they had a version on wheels (or I'm sure I could come up with one) it might work better for me.

IIRC, doesn't the router more less need to be dedicated to the WR? I have my trusty old PC690 (and about a 100 bases and attachments) and my permanently mouted PC7518 in my router table. I would need another router, me thinks.

However, all that said, I would eagerly read any cool stuff you can show us with your WR. Go for it...make me salivate...I may end up with one!

[Glenn Clabo]

Matt,
You are right...it can do everything that all the others can do in one...according to what I've seen and heard. However, I have only done finger joints and dovetails right out of the box...after I mounted it of course. There isn't anything done free hand. The parts are always clamped. You move the router which is in a fixture and the slide that the parts are clamped in. Which I think is much safer. I haven't built or installed a "jig" yet.

I know that there are "jigs" and fixtures that can be built/bought to do special angels and dangles...but I haven't used anything that was as simple and as accurate as this was out of the box. The only problem was working with the router "right side up". If I wasn't told about it (thanks Dave!) I would have had to think about it a little while.

I hope to try sliding dovetails this weekend.

[Tyler Howell]

Glenn,
I always like new toyls. But there is a long list of stuff I want to get first.
Let's see what that bad boy can do.

[Glenn Clabo]

Chris,
I want to make it clear to everyone that I'm not trying to sell this machine. I'm just wondering if anyone is interested. I know it's not for everyone...for lots of reasons. I hope nobody thinks I'm pushing this.

I fully understand about the price. I waited for a long time to pull the trigger. However, when I figured I wanted (not needed...handwork was fun for a long time) jigs for a dovetailer/finger jointer/tenon/mortiser I realized the cost was not as much as I thought. I also had no space...and this really doesn't take up as much as it seems. I don't know why I'll keep my table mounted router besides as part of my TS. I also know you can mount the rat to a table/bench on wheels.

Interesting to hear the issues....

[Chris Padilla]

Glenn,

I think it's pretty clear you aren't trying to sell the product...no worries, mate! This is a place to discuss and learn--lets forge ahead. I look forward to your projects with it.

[Matt Woodworth]

Matt,
There isn't anything done free hand. The parts are always clamped. You move the router which is in a fixture and the slide that the parts are clamped in.

Just to be clear, you're right in that it's not exactly freehand. I was thinking of cutting box joints or dovetails. IIRC, you slide the wood into place based on a template that you've made previously. It's sort of a "slide and line it up by eye" operation. There isn't really anything wrong with that. I think I can line things up to about 1/128". It just didn't look as foolproof as something that guides the router bit like the leigh jig.

My interest was raised when I saw a Leigh FMT jig at a show. Then I started looking around and I saw the woodrat with has a lot in common with it but it does far more. The woodrats gives you massive flexibility and but seems to lose the "foolproofness". (I'm sort of new to this forum, is it ok to make up words? )

[Jim Becker]

Learning is an integral part of the forum experience and community. I see no harm in getting more information on tools like this, even if one isn't personally inclined to purchased one. I'd certainly read about it and even ask questions...so what else is new?

[Dave Richards]

I've had my Rat for about two years. I considered other things including the Leigh D4 and FMT. In my mind the price argument doesn't hold water if you consider the cost of the D4 and the FMT together are more than the Rat. Additionally the the Leigh tools won't do things like profiling edges, tongue and groove joints, dowel making, surfacing, etc. Yes, I know there are other tools that can do those things, too.

As to a dedicated router, there's no need for a dedicated unit. I have a DeWalt DW625 that I use on the Rat but I also use it on the Legacy and currently it is hanging upside down in the router table. Moving it around is no big deal. It's only two screws.

Personally, I like the WoodRat dovetail bits better than carbide ones for their slenderness. The shape is nicer to my eye. The nice thing about the Rat is you can use absolutely any dovetail bit you want with it. The Leigh D4 and other jigs with angled pin templates limit you to one angle of dovetail bit because it must match the angle on the template.

While it seems like accuracy without a template would be hard to achieve, it really isn't. In fact even my first dovetails lined up just fine. As to doing box joints, the same thing applies although I have used a different approach for box joints. I stack the four pieces together, offseting alternating pieces by the diameter of the router bit. I clamp them into the Rat and then cut the fingers by turning the carriage from side to side. Then I increment the router toward me by twice the diameter of the bit and repeat. When I finished with one end I do the other. I have a little mahogany box done that way that I store parts for the Legacy in. The joints are so tight, I have never bothered to glue the box up.

I could write more but I gotta catch a bus.

Edited to fix spelling and to add:

I think one of the reasons the Rat hasn't sold here as well as it has in the UK is that the advertising leaves something to be desired. The small ads I see in the woodworking magazines don't do a lot to draw my attention. They tend to show a small piece of casework or something but its not quite enough to get me to say, "I want to know more."

As Glenn has indicated there are a lot of things the Rat does very, very well. Woodworkers need more of an opportunity to see those things to appreciate it.

[Chris Padilla]

I guess, in the end, my dollars went into an Incra Twin-Linear for my router table fancy-shmancy fence system. I have no more room or dollars left for another joint-making system...I think what I've got works well for me.

Still, I always have an open mind and I'd love to see any projects or joint-making with the 'rat. Dollars can always be freed up if necessary but they are currently in the bandsaw savings account right now.

[Glenn Clabo]

As to doing box joints, the same thing applies although I have used a different approach for box joints. I stack the four pieces together, offseting alternating pieces by the diameter of the router bit. I clamp them into the Rat and then cut the fingers by turning the carriage from side to side. Then I increment the router toward me by twice the diameter of the bit and repeat. When I finished with one end I do the other. I have a little mahogany box done that way that I store parts for the Legacy in. The joints are so tight, I have never bothered to glue the box up.

As Glenn has indicated there are a lot of things the Rat does very, very well. Woodworkers need more of an opportunity to see those things to appreciate it.

That's why I'm doing this. I think this thing has a ton of potential and whenever I talk to Dave I learn more. But I thought I was being too much of a toolguy who looked for different ways to use a tool.

The other reason is to open the door to the newer tool buyer. If it is really an option...it will save money and do more.

[Dave Hammelef]

So how much and do they have a website???

[Keith Outten]

I would like to know more. I'm always interested in any type of precision machining equipment and it seems like a real nice match for my laser engraver if I could make custom templates for the Rat.

[Dave Richards]

Dave and Keith, here's the WoodRat site.

For pricing, check the link for buying at the bottom of the main page. The WoodRat is $650 USD. PlungeBars are $40 to $47.50 depending upon which router its for. The PlungeBar is not required but it is very helpful in allowing you to plunge the router with one hand. I find it useful on the Legacy mill and even with the big router in the router table or when hand holding the router.

They offer a few accessories that would be nice but aren't required. You can buy their router bits but there's no requirement to do so. The aluminum guide rails would be a real nice to have thing but also not absolutely required.

I would recommend that anyone with even a little interest order the Video or DVD to see some of what you can do with it.

Lewis Stepp also sells the WoodRat in the US at The Craftsman Gallery. He's come up with a few other accessories that he sells such as some angle gauges and a digital caliper attachment. Neither are required but some might find them handy.

Keith, you would likely find a way to do some laser etched guides but there really is no use for a template in the sense that the D4 guides are a template. still, you might find a use for some sort of scale or something you can make.

I took a spare scale from my Incra TS-IIIa and used that on my rat. I just took a piece of wood about 3/4" square and, with a dovetail bit in the router on the rat, routed a very shallow dovetail-shaped groove. Then I drilled a couple three holes for machine screws and slipped their heads into the channel in the bottom of the machine's extrusion. I made a cursor that mounts on the carriage and overhangs the scale. Both the scale and the cursor can be zeroed wherever you like for whatever application.

I also sometimes fix a small stainless scale on the aluminum guide rail and put a pencil mark on the router plate as a cursor. Not real high tech looking but it works as well as anything.

I don't stand to gain anything from all this WoodRat talk but I think the tool has really been overlooked in this country. I hope you guys will give it a good look.

Martin, the designer says something in the demo about the fact that the Rat will change the way you think about using a router but then maybe the change is a good thing.

One last thing, cuts such as for tenoning are done using climb milling (which is safe) so the surfaces tend to be smoother than with conventional milling.