Shaper/Router Table

[Tom Veatch]

....
A quick look at accident statistics will show how many router accidents there are,

...far more people own a router table than a shaper.

I don't have a bone to pick or an opinion to share in the shaper vs router question since I have first hand knowledge only on the router side. But I was struck by the conjunction of the quoted sentences and wonder if the statistics mentioned take into account the relative populations of the two devices. Perhaps they do. I don't know.

For example, since "far more people own a router table than a shaper", assume there exists only 50 shapers and 1000 routers. If that were the case and there was 20 router accidents and only one shaper accident reported last year, could you conclude that routers are 20 times as dangerous as shapers?

[Rod Sheridan]

I don't have a bone to pick or an opinion to share in the shaper vs router question since I have first hand knowledge only on the router side. But I was struck by the conjunction of the quoted sentences and wonder if the statistics mentioned take into account the relative populations of the two devices. Perhaps they do. I don't know.

For example, since "far more people own a router table than a shaper", assume there exists only 50 shapers and 1000 routers. If that were the case and there was 20 router accidents and only one shaper accident reported last year, could you conclude that routers are 20 times as dangerous as shapers?

Hi Tom, I am in complete agreement with your point on the number of accidents per machine.

Routers are far more common than shapers in the home environment, and of course the router is represented in far more accidents.

My point with the statistics is that you often hear that shapers are far more dangerous than routers, which I disagree with. As I stated my fingers couldn't tell the difference if they ever get caught up in the cutter.

I think that people don't treat routers with the respect they deserve, which makes the operator more dangerous when using a router than a shaper.

When you own a shaper, you often are a more experienced, better trained woodworker than someone who just received a router and table for a Fathers day gift. (Obviously this isn't always true).

The shaper operator often spends more time on setup, including special guards, jigs, hold downs, or the use of a stock feeder to control material and guard the operator from contact with the cutter.

If you're like me, you probably check everything twice, and spin the cutter by hand a few times before plugging the shaper back in. (And then check everything again because I believe in seeing if the cow's brown on both sides).

There's nothing like the sound of the air being moved by a 5 inch cutter at 7,000RPM to motivate the Operator to be really safety concious.

Thanks for the comments Tom, I always learn something here.........Rod.

[Sean Troy]

It would seem to be a good idea to gain working knowledge and experience with a router table before moving on to a Shaper. That would help determine need also I would think.

[Peter Quadarella]

I think the decision point comes after using a cheapo table and a router or 2. When you start looking at expensive lifts and tables, should you be looking at shapers instead?

Based on the comments about small bits and clean cuts, and the fact that I don't nee to complete anything in one pass (not a production shop), I think I will likely stick with the router.

[James Wellman]

so what about the middle of the road shapers like the Grizzly 1 1/2 HP unit? One is for sale locally with some cutters that a guy used for one job, I bought a router and table from him plus a lot of extras but I was looking at this shaper too. However, other than it being a new tool I could not make myself spend the $400 and loss of floor space...... but a new tool would be so cool

[David DeCristoforo]

1.5 HP is not enough power for a shaper. Here's the thing...if you have a shaper, you will almost certainly end up wanting to take advantage of all it's potential capabilities and you will soon find the 1.5 HP a great limitation. Of course if you never do anything more demanding than running small moulding runs and other "light duty" work, it might be fine....

YM

[Greg Hines, MD]

I would agree that flesh cannot tell if it is being atomized by a shaper cutter or router bit, but your point about safety applies equally. I built my own router table, and built my own guard. I use it as often as I can, which is to say, when not doing something vertically that it would interfere with. If you are going to use any tool, high powered or hand powered, you need to learn the safe way of doing things.

Your point about a power feeder is a good one, but I cannot justify a power feeder for the garage projects that I build. As to cost, I would agree that when you compare a middle of the road shaper and a high end (phenolic table, lift, 3+ HP router) the costs approach each other, I would disagree that those are the only options. Many, many woodworkers do great work using a sink cutout clamped to the side of their workbench for table work.

I would still consider a shaper to be a bit high end for most hobbyists. I do not feel that the only choices out there are between a high end router table or shaper.

Doc

[Greg Hines, MD]

1.5 HP is not enough power for a shaper. Here's the thing...if you have a shaper, you will almost certainly end up wanting to take advantage of all it's potential capabilities and you will soon find the 1.5 HP a great limitation. Of course if you never do anything more demanding than running small moulding runs and other "light duty" work, it might be fine....

YM

Yoshikuni, you are comparing apples to oranges. a 1.5HP shaper is not the equivalent of a 1.5HP router. The induction motor on the shaper will spin at a lot heavier torque than the universal motor on the router.

Doc

[David DeCristoforo]

"...1.5HP shaper is not the equivalent of a 1.5HP router...."

Of course you are correct. I did not intend to imply otherwise. I think my point was that if you are going to invest in a shaper, 1.5 HP will, sooner or later, become a limitation. For a router, that might be a lot of power but it is "entry level" at best for a shaper, the difference in "real world" power notwithstanding. If you want a demonstration, mount a "full sized" raised panel knife with a back panel cutter on a 1.5 HP shaper and try to cut a panel in hard maple in one pass. Then try it on a machine with 3+ HP. IMMHO, 3HP should be considered minimum for a shaper. Unless of course, you are, as I said before, only doing "light duty" work.

YM

[Joe Chritz]

I've used the jet small shaper (2 HP I think) and have a friend with the small shop fox. They are basically slow speed heavy router tables.

Depending on what he has with that shaper it would be nice to have, even if you don't hog stuff out on it. You can't build a router table anywhere near it for close to that cost.

It is under powered for a shaper but will be every bit as powerful as a router in a table.

A 1.75 HP router draws about 10 amps at 110 that shaper is 16. Different motors make for different HP ratings.

Joe

[Brad Shipton]

Before you buy a shaper you might want to go watch someone use one and see if you can try it out. It is a very intimidating machine. I have a 4hp Felder and it is quite the site to watch a 5lb cutter head spin up to 6000rpm and then send pieces through. Cutters are also quite a bit more expensive and not usually stocked by many places. If you have any thoughts of large runs, it is the machine. I ran 300bdft of flooring last night with it and the PF and could not imagine doing so with a router. If you do move forward and have intentions of using a PF, consider the mass of the machine you buy. I had a 3hp version before, and when I mounted a .75hp PF to it, it bordered on being tippy. The effect of a 80lb PF cant'd 36" is quite surprising.

Brad

[David DeCristoforo]

"...it is quite the site to watch a 5lb cutter head spin up to 6000rpm and then send pieces through..."

Ya, baby.....that's what I'm talkin' about!!! Makes you want that power feeder, doesn't it?

YM

[Rod Sheridan]

OK, in a moment of sillyness it came to me, we don't NEED a shaper.

However just like the mythical Binford 5000 Tree Harvester/Shaper or whatever Tim Taylor used to lust after, which would you rather have in the garage?

A wimpy little universal motored router, or a Binford 5000 Tree Harvester/Shaper?

Anyone who answers "wimpy router" should have to throw out their plaid shirts and get kicked out of Possum Lodge!

Some days I crack myself up.

[Tom Veatch]

...I think that people don't treat routers with the respect they deserve, which makes the operator more dangerous when using a router than a shaper.

When you own a shaper, you often are a more experienced, better trained woodworker than someone who just received a router and table for a Fathers day gift. (Obviously this isn't always true).....

I think you nailed it there! I would suspect that the majority of shapers are operated in professional/industrial shops where the inverse is true for routers. I'm certainly not saying that all "pro" operators are better "____" (fill in the blank) than any "amateur", but I'd guess that the median for the pro group is higher than the median for the amateur group.

The reason I noticed the statistical reference is that I just went through something like that with my wife. We jusr replaced a dishwasher. My wife was talking to the repairman about the best brand to buy as a replacement. He mentioned something along the lines that he had 10 times the service calls for Brand X than he did for Brand Y. Forget that the repairman is not exactly a disinterested party and consider that if there are 20 times the number of Brand X in his service area than there are Brand Y, then Brand X is a more reliable unit.

According to Mark Twain, "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"