Requests for Plans

[Todd Burch]

I've received two requests this week for plans of items on my web site. I think both were wanting them for free, but it got me to thinking about offering plans for sale to those who might request them.

My question here has to do with what would YOU consider a good value in terms of how much you paid and what you got in a purchased plan off the internet.

For conversation purposes, I created a plan this evening and have attached them in web viewable PDF format. They are for a laundry chute cover that I made a few years ago.

For plans such as these, would you consider them complete enough based on your experience reading and/or building from plans? Do I need more text akin to the woodworking magazine articles? Should there be a cutlist or material specifications? Are the drawings themselves adequate?

I knowingly left a few specs off the plans, as (I think) they can be infered. How did I do?

I really appreciate any input you have to offer. I have thick skin. And, if you happen to need a laundry chute, or a potato bin (you'll have to add a bottom!), then consider this my gift to you!

It's too big to attach (183K), so here is the link:

Laundry Chute Plans

Thanks, Todd

[David Rose]

Todd, take this for what it is costs you from a relatively new furniture woodworker.

I bought a couple of sets of plans when I first started. I think I was looking for how to really deal with cross grain and detail things like that. What I was after was "hand holding" as I was getting started. Neither really did that, but they caused me to think which might be even better. But I did feel kind of ripped when I ordered "plans" and got line drawings and cut lists. I think I paid $10 for one and $15 for the other. I think I was hoping to get the "how to" info that a magazine article would offer but for something that I picked.

Your plans show more than I got (except cut lists) with one exception. Do you show anywhere that the panels are inset into the rails and stiles? The rails and stiles show on the bottom view, but a beginner might not know anything about panels. A short note about "leaving an 1/8" either side of the panel set 1/4" into the r/s" might be good. Also, as a beginner, I would have liked something about hinging the top. At least draw in the hinges.

I know how I would do all these things now, as a lower level intermediate woodworker. But for most simple things I wouldn't buy plans now either.

I think you should add the panel dimensions to the drawing, a couple of notes about that and maybe butt hinges and a cut list and price it $9.95.

A potato bin should be vented with a slatted bottom, shouldn't it?

Thanks for the free plans!

David

I've received two requests this week for plans of items on my web site. I think both were wanting them for free, but it got me to thinking about offering plans for sale to those who might request them.

My question here has to do with what would YOU consider a good value in terms of how much you paid and what you got in a purchased plan off the internet.

For conversation purposes, I created a plan this evening and have attached them in web viewable PDF format. They are for a laundry chute cover that I made a few years ago.

For plans such as these, would you consider them complete enough based on your experience reading and/or building from plans? Do I need more text akin to the woodworking magazine articles? Should there be a cutlist or material specifications? Are the drawings themselves adequate?

I knowingly left a few specs off the plans, as (I think) they can be infered. How did I do?

I really appreciate any input you have to offer. I have thick skin. And, if you happen to need a laundry chute, or a potato bin (you'll have to add a bottom!), then consider this my gift to you!

It's too big to attach (183K), so here is the link:

Laundry Chute Plans

Thanks, Todd

[Jim Becker]

These are actually quite detailed as compared to many "plans" I've seen out there...more like the drawings that accompany a magazine article with the exeption of a cut list that Dave pointed out. I do agree about the panel detail he mentions, too. That's not something to assume and a beginner might not infer exactly how it's placed based only on the rail and stile end-view.

There is a market for plans...I know a LOT of folks have downloaded and built my outfeed table design and get at least a half-dozen questions a week on it. I don't know if that volume would hold, however, if I were charging for it. To date, only one person has voluntarily contributed cash... Price them fairly and you should sell some. But you won't get rich on the activity! IMHO, of course, and that was free, too...

[Rick Lasita]

Todd, I looked at the plans as if I was 12 yrs younger, and just getting started in WW/Furniture building. I would be totally lost. Then I looked at them with my skill and experience aquired over 12 years of mostly weekends, but many projects, and I had no problem. I could create my own cut-list from what I saw in your drawings, and I could mentally put together a sequence of construction (hence, no wording needed). When I first started out, I used Woodsmith or WOOD plans, and the step by step (still do as a matter of fact for some things from Woodsmith) and recently posted the computer desk pictures I built following a FWW article, which never are as detailed as the others mentioned. I recently purchased the plans for Uncle Norm's Oak Tall Case Clock. As most of may know, it is one page, printed two side, with a material list, that could be considered a "cut list". You can't be everything to everybody, so I guess you have to decide who the target market is for your plans. Beginners, Intermediate, or Experienced, or as I have seen on some plans, you may consider coding them in some manner that indicates the level required to complete the plans. No matter what, I wouldn't feel bad about charging for the plans. Like Jim, this "wisdom" is free of course. Good Luck, Rick

[Stefan Antwarg]

I agree with exactly what Rick said. I am one of those few who rely on plans to build stuff. Your example would not work for me - I would be e-mailing you everyday for advise. I don't think I would know where to start. Like Rick said, I think you need to decide who you are making the plans for. I don't seriously consider making a project unless the plans are at the level of woodsmith or wood magazine. For me, I need every little detail spelled out. I have been woodworking for about 4 years and maybe I sell myself short. I am sure for a lot of people this would work.

Regardless of the level you are going for, I would include a couple photos of the finished product.

Stefan

[Glenn Clabo]

Todd,
Is your plan good enough to build from?…yes. Now, seeing that you asked…here is my take…

You are clearly a talented professional. Your skill in producing unique designs, which result in a product that also reflects your excellent artisanship, is establishing a reputation that you work hard at and should be very proud of. I would suggest that you never degrade that professional reputation by giving away your products to just anyone or more importantly reducing your attention to detailed professionalism.

Don’t give away or sell something that is not up to your excellent standard. Plans/drawings have well established guidelines. Many, if not most, woodworking plans/drawings that are sold today seldom meet even the minimum requirements of acceptance. Not to hurt your feelings…coming from someone who has reviewed/approved/built many things from drawings…and just being honest…but your drawings don’t meet professional guidelines. Don’t fall into the “good enough to build from” category in an attempt to please someone (who you don't know at least) who wants something free/cheap. Your informal advise and suggestions over a forum like this is very much appreciated by everyone...but when you go beyond being informal you are simply too good to go cheap.

[Dan Bussiere]

Todd,
I agree with what Rick and others have said. I also think that your work isn't very often for the beginner. I honestly believe your efforts would be better served by writing a book on the process of making built-ins, etc. That way the user would be able to learn the process involved in your expertise, yet be challenged on their own to make a plan. Perhaps you could include the planning process you use, not so much the computer part, but the thought process behind it. You truly are a talented individual! The thing you have to offer others is your process and deseign knowledge rather than simple plans. Your target audience is a tad above the beginner.
For what it's worth,
Dan

[Ed Falis]

I like what Dan just said about a book on built-ins.

- Ed

[Todd Burch]

Thanks everyone for the sage advise and wisdom. I am going to rework the plans with this feedback and post here again for more critiques.

I will also include rationale for the chosen design and my approach to "divide and conquer" a project.

If any of you have additional input, fire away!

[Dean Baumgartner]

Todd,
I think I'm kind of echoing what others have said but here goes.

What you have is either too much or too little.

Too much for an intermediate or experienced person who is probably looking for ideas and drawings to show others as a starting point to modify and make their own or are looking for just that bit of advice and detail they need to take their own projects to the next level.


Too little for the novice who needs each step explained and is making the project as a learning experience as much as to have the finished item. So they need not only a step by step set of instructions but also some explaination of the why and what to watch out for (cross grain glueing kind of thing)

So my thought would be to get a good idea of just what type of person you are making the plans for and slant it to their needs. Might even be interesting to offer different plans that increase in difficulty while decreasing in basic detail kind of like a training program. (written a few of those) Kind of do it like some of those DIY programs on HGTV that have a rating scale for difficulty.


Dean