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Thread: Frame Saw for Resawing?

  1. That's what I was asking, but I put the question poorly. The blade I want to use is about 26" long by 1.5" wide, maybe 8 tpi. Currently it's fixed to a frame, but if the blade could be turned to 90 degrees to the frame, it could rip much longer boards. Tage Frid was a woodworker, not a toolmaker, that I associate with this type of saw, but it's probably just a standard European bow saw. I don't think the holders at Tools for working wood would fit a blad this large.

  2. #17
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    only tried a bowsaw with the blade turned sideways once, couldn't follow the line because the hand hold was off the the side and affected the normal sawing rythm and procedure. Too me turning saws should have narrow blades so they can be used for their intended purpose cutting curves.

    just think of a bandsaw with a narrow blade and how hard it is to follow a straight line with it, and all you haave to do is align the board with the blade. using a tool for its original intended purpose is the thing to do in my opinion. you don't cross cut with a rip saw and vise versa do you.
    Last edited by harry strasil; 02-28-2008 at 9:57 PM.
    Jr.
    Hand tools are very modern- they are all cordless
    NORMAL is just a setting on the washing machine.
    Be who you are and say what you feel... because those that matter... don't mind...and those that mind...don't matter!
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  3. #18
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    Can a frame saw be used to resaw very long pieces of lumber?

    The technique I've seen described several times uses the saw at an angle, turning the board four times to complete the cut. That certainly won't work for what I want to do.

    I want to resaw long cedar boards (typically 4/4) for boat planking. The finished planks will be as thin as 1/4 inch, up to 8 inches wide, and up to 16 feet long. Getting two planks from one 4/4 board is the first goal. If thinner is possible, all the better. Every slice makes the boat less costly to build.

    It seems to me the challenge is holding the workpiece steady enough to control the cut. Suggestions?

    (No, I don't want to use electrons.)

  4. #19
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    turn 4 times, you lost me?????
    Jr.
    Hand tools are very modern- they are all cordless
    NORMAL is just a setting on the washing machine.
    Be who you are and say what you feel... because those that matter... don't mind...and those that mind...don't matter!
    By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry strasil View Post
    turn 4 times, you lost me?????
    The technique of turning 4 times is described here: http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/resaw.php3

    But, nevermind that technique. It won't work for a 12-16 foot board.

    Any suggestions for resawing a really long board?

  6. #21
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    Bob, first you will need to make you a special sawing stool similar to the one I am setting on in I think its post #15 in this thread except you will need an open center wide enough to set your long board in and with the ability to clamp the board to one end for stability, and 2 small auxiliary stands to support the board ends.

    Next, you will need to make a real frame rip saw similar to what I am using in the aformentioned post, not a bowsaw with the blade set crosswise. Go find an old 4.5 or 5 tooth rip hand saw and remove the handle and take it to a machine or blacksmith shop and have them use a plasma cutter to cut it down to 2.5 to 3 inches wide. Smooth the cut up so there are no burrs. Sharpen the teeth so they are 90° to the blade on the front side and use a 3 to 5° angle on the front cutting edge, then set the teeth and after setting find a machinists type vise with smooth jaws and folding a piece of copy paper in half, clamp it in the jaws with about an inch sticking up out of the jaws and fold each side over onto the jaw tops and tape in place. Then carefully making sure you get all the teeth slip the blade down into the jaws and firmly clamp the blade to even out the set, the teeth point will cut into the paper and insure an even narrow set, which will make for less sawing (less material removed) and very little flop in the kerf.

    Scribe a line all the way around the boardusing a knife or one of those wheel marking gauges, remembering to offset the line so you can follow the line with one side of the blade. If you get it started right its awfully hard to get off the line.

    Start sawing and you might want to find a thin cushion to use on the saw table as you are going to be spending a lot of time setting on it. Don't worry about turning the board around of over unless you want to check the progress on the bottom side and you can use a mirror to do that. When you get to the other end, end for end the board with the saw still in the kerf and let the end stick out the end of the saw table, have someone else set on the saw table and using small wedges to keep the kerf open to avoid pinching, set on another stool and continue the cut toward you.

    I have a 4 PPI frame saw that will break down, that I will loan you to use if you PM me with your address. With this particular frame saw in 3/4 soft pine I can cut about 6 inches per stroke if I force it some, but you will not be able to do that the way you want to rip your wide board.
    Last edited by harry strasil; 11-10-2008 at 4:55 AM.
    Jr.
    Hand tools are very modern- they are all cordless
    NORMAL is just a setting on the washing machine.
    Be who you are and say what you feel... because those that matter... don't mind...and those that mind...don't matter!
    By Hammer and Hand All Arts Do Stand

  7. #22
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    Fabulous answer Harry. THANKS!

    Holding the board was what I was most curious about and you've given me some very good suggestions. The tips on making the saw are also helpful. (Dang! I just passed up a good saw auction last night.)

    I'll pass on borrowing your saw. I would rather learn to make one than have to remember to send yours back. Thanks for the kind offer.

  8. #23
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    "Can a frame saw be used to resaw very long pieces of lumber?"

    Bob - Harry's given you a superb answer; I'll just add that re-sawing even soft wood with a coarse saw is really hard work - no big deal if you've got a 2-foot long drawer side, a much bigger deal if you're re-sawing enough for a boat. It might be worth noting that a frame saw was the solution for this before saw makers learned to draw out a long blade with enough strength to make a pit saw in the later 18th century.

    And - if this is something you think you'll be doing for multiple boats, you might seriously consider building a sash saw accessory for a treadle lathe. The advantage is that because the mechanism is driven by your feet, and there's support and guides for the plank, you can feed it into the saw just the way you would on a powered bandsaw to keep the kerf on track without having to have a helper.

    Of course, the most efficient way to do what you're asking without power tools is in a real pit saw. I saw a demonstration of this at Old Salem in NC, and it was flat-out jaw dropping how fast these two dudes doing the sawing could re-saw a 14-foot long, 12" wide plank of hard pine from a log.

  9. #24
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    Turning four times...

    Someone, way back in the thread, mentioned their method of starting from one corner and then turning the board to another corner and making all the cuts meet in the middle.

    my response was this never works for me.

    jim

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Keller NC View Post
    "Can a frame saw be used to resaw very long pieces of lumber?"

    Bob - Harry's given you a superb answer; I'll just add that re-sawing even soft wood with a coarse saw is really hard work ...
    Oh yeah! I've already done a lot of ripping of 4/4 cedar flitches by hand, and I then go about dimensioning the boards with hand planes. I don't mind that kind of work.

    Hmmm... pit saw??? Hmmm, some neighbors down the street have a pool they're no longer using.

  11. #26
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    Sort of an aside the "hard work thing" - I just took a break from the shop where I'm building a tail vise. I swear this will be the last one I ever build - they're complicated PITAs. This one is built out of 16/4 rock maple, and my standard backsaws (12" L-Ns) don't have enough depth for the dovetails on the end. I recently purchased an antique Barstow steel-backed backsaw that's simply huge - 24" long, 9" high, and weighs about 7 lbs. I went with that one for the first cut, but though the weight certainly helped cut the cut done, it was a bit too rough for my taste as the teeth on this saw are somewhere between "rip" and "crosscut".

    The only thing left in my arsenal was a Disston & Son (not the singular "son" - this is a really old saw) #7, 22" long, filed rip cut at 7 tpi. There's no back on this saw, of course, so I had my doubts because there's not much weight to push it through the cut. The rather amazing thing about the result, though, was the that the cut was arrow-straight, smooth, and went pretty fast. I strongly suspect this is the original set and sharpening on this saw - these old guys in the 19th century really knew what they were doing!

    Really makes me wonder if they're old frame saws in existence that didn't get used (fell into a house foundation when it was being built, cabinetmaker passed away before he could use his new saw and his descendants were in other businesses, etc...) that could be studied to reproduce the set, fleam, and tooth shape.

  12. #27
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    Success! Thank You Harry!

    A while back, I asked about resawing long lumber with hand tools, for boat building. Harry Strasil wrote some great suggestions about both the type of saw to build and how to hold the workpieces.

    I have now made a saw and worked out a way to hold the lumber.

    Earlier this year I built a pair of saw benches that had identical heights. Adding a pair of vertical rails from an end stretcher to the bottom of the bench top produced a slot for holding a board on edge. Then, a few wedges force the board up against the bottom of the bench top and center it in the slot.

    That picture shows a short (4 feet long) test piece that can be held with one bench. Setting up for lumber 16 feet long uses the other bench and more wedges.

    It works and will do what I want. Harry was right on with the suggestions, including "...and you might want to find a thin cushion to use on the saw table as you are going to be spending a lot of time setting on it."

    For larger and more photos, see my blog entry about resawing boat lumber.

    THANKS Harry!

  13. #28
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    Harry, you mention cutting the D8 with a plasma cutter. Not sure where I would get access to one of those, but I do have access to a big Supershear guillotine. Is there any reason why guillotining the saw blade could adversely impact the blade? I cut the hardened teeth off a cheap would-not-cut modern hardpoint saw, and he blade seems to be still nice and straight; I plan to make this into a backsaw.

    Thanks
    Peter

  14. #29
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    does anyone know where Harry Strasil got those nice wide blades for his rip saw in the pictures?

  15. #30
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYzCXwwOF30

    pretty good video, especially where he introduces and uses a kerfing plane. he has some videos showing how me makes a kerfing plane. I think with that and a regular hand saw you can resaw. I haven't tried it yet but it's on my todo list. Already have the kerfing blade from blackburn tools. I chose it because of the extra deep gullets but call or email first to see if he has any in stock, otherwise badaxe is prob quicker

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