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Thread: First Drawers: How should I do 'em?

  1. #1

    First Drawers: How should I do 'em?

    I'm working on the Arts & Crafts nightstand from the plans from WOOD magazine.

    The directions say to do a basic drawer lock joint.

    However, I think this is dead boring, and it actually seems to allow more chance for error than some other, more interesting joint. Kate says she prefers through dovetails. I like box joints myself and have all the materials to build Lynn's Jig.

    So, I have a few options:
    • Build it per plan
    • Use this as a reason to buy a dovetail jig (Porter*Cable 4212 or MLCS Pins & Tails)
    • Build Lynn's Jig and do box joints.
    • Buy a drawer lock router bit and use that
    • Use Dowelmax, even though I won't be able to see the joint when I'm done.


    Dowelmax would probably be the easiest, but if it can't be seen when its done, what's the point? (at least for drawers)


  2. #2
    Well dovetails would obviously be the "best" for both attractiveness and strength. Any of the other methods you mentioned would "work" but the doweling is my least favorite option. You might want to consider hand cutting DTs since you are only talking about one drawer.

    YM

  3. #3
    From the things you listed I would go for the PC dovetail jig.

    You can do the dovetails which would really look good or you could also use the same jig and make box joints.

    As much as I love my Dowelmax that would be the last one I would pick.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    You should do them square and strong. Everything else is icing.

    FWIW, I prefer dovetails for drawers. Once upon a time it was for strength but now mostly for looks since so many other options are already over strong as is.

    Joe
    JC Custom WoodWorks

    For best results, try not to do anything stupid.

    "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Padmé Amidala "Star Wars III: The Revenge of the Sith"

  5. #5
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    Jeremy, As a beginner, I really like box joints. They are easy to make, are very strong, and IMO, look great.

    You can get great results even from a simple jig. And while the simple jigs DO suffer from additive error, with a little tweaking you can overcome that. For example, make a number of cuts along a scrap board (eight, for example). Then measure the distance from the first pin to the last. Any error will be mangified by a factor of eight (so an error of 1/32" would mean the last pin would be off by 1/4"). Using that information you can tweak the jig by just the right amount to get (nearly) perfect results.

    Good luck with wichever joint you choose. And post pics!

  6. #6
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    Well....I'll add another option. If you don't want "visible" joinery, the pocket screw method is incredibly fast and quite strong. Works well with both solid stock and BB ply...one must just get the step drill stop adjusted right. I happen to love the look of dovetailed drawers, but there are just times when I need to move along with a project, if you know what I mean. When that is the case, I use the pocket screws now, especially since all my drawers have false fronts.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  7. #7
    Jeremy,

    Since you're doing an Arts & Crafts design, I would use either a box joint, or more preferably, a Greene & Greene-style box joint. That would be very easy to make and will go great with Arts & Crafts as that's what it is. Actually for Arts & Crafts such as Stickley, Mission, Greene & Greene, dovetails are used but not as much as they are say in period furniture.

  8. #8
    There is a lot to think about. I guess it all comes down to whether I just need it to work, or whether I want it to look good too.

    Drawer lock, I'm so-so. Kind of neutral on. There is some joinery to see, but not much to get excited about.

    But if I do dovetails or box joints, I will be proud & happy every time I look at them. (even if they're not perfect)

    I'm going to look into Greene & Greene box joints. I don't know what they are, but can probably find it in a search.

    These drawers don't have false fronts. The fronts fit right into the drawer opening. So I guess lock miters are an option too.

    I guess I'm leaning towards box joints for now, since I already have the equipment to build the jig.
    Last edited by J. Z. Guest; 03-11-2008 at 9:18 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Could you not use both DT's and box joints. I hand cut DT's for the front that show when opened. Investment $19.. But that is time consuming and I personally don't feel the need to use them on the rear. I box joint the rears with an investment of $79.

    BTW.. I just purchased a Frued SBO8X box joint set and cut 240 box joints for 6 drawers on a chest. Took about two hours to cut them. The fronts are DT's cut by hand which takes more time.. but I have the time.. love the challenge and the results that will show when the drarwers are open.

    See show-thread for box joints...

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...87&postcount=6

    Good luck...

    Sarge..
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
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    Jeremy,
    I am in the middle of building an 8-drawer dresser (2nd project) which called for drawer lock joinery. Instead, I decided to buy PC 4212 and spend the time learning how to cut dovetails. I knew that down the road if I followed the plans, I'd be kicking myself for not going with dovetails. If you see yourself using the DT jig in the future, my vote is go with dovetail joinery.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Zorns View Post
    I'm going to look into Greene & Greene box joints. I don't know what they are, but can probably find it in a search.
    Typical G&G Box Joint - G&G-Box-Joint.jpg

    The visual aspect of this joint will depend heavily on your drawer box material as end grain on front and sides are exposed.

    I enjoy the strength and the look of drawer-lock joints and use them on most of my stuff. Not as showey as DT's but nice in detail.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 03-11-2008 at 10:59 AM.
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  12. #12
    Even if the drawer isn't an overlay, you can still do a false front over the real front if you don't want the dovetails or box joint to show through. Just glue some stock to the front and flush trim around the edges. I think folks often do this when making faux half blind dovetails. Which brings me to my recommendation: for one drawer, I do think you ought to think about hand cutting through dovetails and then making them half blind via the false front option. I recommend you pick up Rob Cosman's DVD on hand cutting dovetails. It's the best tutorial I've seen for beginners on hand cutting dovetails and it also happens to demonstrate this false front technique. Practice some dovetails on scrap before you attempt the real thing. Even if they're not perfect, I bet they'll be just fine. For a piece like that, I bet the satisfaction you'd get would be tremendous.

    I will add one other option: Using one of the joinery techniques that don't show (pocket screws or Dowelmax) then put through dowels of a contrasting wood on the sides and flush trim them. I think pinned joinery is at least somewhat consistent with the style of that nightstand and it does add a neat visual effect.

  13. #13
    Maybe my thinking is completely off for the "power tools" forum, but ...

    It's just one drawer. Take a weekend and practice hand cutting dovetails before you make the drawer, maybe by making a little practice box with DTs at all 4 corners. They aren't that difficult. Handcut dovetails will save you about $$$ from a high quality dovetail jig, and believe me the satisfaction knowing that you did *everything* on that joint (rather than the router and the jig doing 99% of it), even as you say 'if they are not perfect' far out-weighs the practice time. Well at least in my mind.

    I see jigs as saving you time on large projects like drawers for an entire kitchen cabinet set, or a chest of drawers with 20 joints to cut, each with 3-7 dovetails.

    Bevel gauge, back saw, and a single chisel are about all you need to purchase. You could get a chisel set and be done even quicker (esp when doing the pins). The toughest part I found was sawing exactly along the line, so I just made sure to saw to the inside of the line and used my chisel to get a tight fit. Once my saw skills improve I'm sure I won't need to do that anymore.

    But I dunno, I spend most of my time learning with hand tools. I am probably not a typical WW in that sense.

  14. #14
    Jeremy,

    One of the Greene & Greene approaches to box joints (the one I'm suggesting) is as follows:

    Instead of a larger number of fingers in a typical finger or box-joint, the Greene & Greene approach typically uses 3-4 per joint, being larger. The significant difference is that the fingers are not sanded or cut flush. They actually protrude a bit and have their edges softened a bit. Then, if you want, you can add small pegs or dowels (if only as a decoration, not actually functional) in-between the fingers. Greene & Green were architects in California around 100 years ago that took the Arts & Crafts style to its ultimate representation. Simple, but beautiful. They would typically use mahogany as the main wood and use small ebony pegs for contrast against the mahogany. The pegs would be squared on the outside and would appear to be through-pegs, but usually they just covered a screw joint underneath.

    I suggested this type of construction because it will be very simple to make. You don't need any special jigs, etc. You can cut the joints with a table saw or handsaw or a router. Go to:
    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DX

    to see a picture of what they look like. You can evenly spread them out or use your imagination as the builder in this picture did. PM me if you have any questions.

  15. #15
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    Jeremy

    I built the same night stand a while ago and at the time used a drawer lock joint. To me a box joint as Greene and Greene would do would not fit into a piece that is mission or arts and crafts.

    A year ago I learnt to do hand cut dove tails and now all my drawers are done this way. Mostly do 1/2 blinds instead of through.

    You could always do a drawer lock now and in the future make another drawer that has a 1/2 blind dovetail. I agree with Joe, order a couple of Rob Cosman DVD's and that will get you started.

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