How good is grizzly?

[Tim Marks]

It is enlightening to notice that most "grizzly is crap" stories start out with the "10 or 15 years ago" statement.

Grizzly 10 or 15 years ago was like Harbor Freight is today (ok, maybe not that bad). Their product quality has changed dramatically, and what they sell today usually rivals just about anyone.

I have 4 grizzly machines, and they all work beautifully. I will definitely buy machines from them in the future.

[Karl Brogger]

It is enlightening to notice that most "grizzly is crap" stories start out with the "10 or 15 years ago" statement.

It put a sour enough taste in my mouth that I would still never buy one.
Compromises always have to be made. I bought a drum sander because I couldn't afford a Timesaver when I started out four years ago. Today in fact I bought a Timesaver, it still isn't the one I want, but it is the one I can afford and it'll beat the snot out of my Woodmaster. Hopefully 5 years down the road I'll be able to spend the money on the Timesaver I want that will beat the snot out of the model I have now. or, I'll get smart and get my butt out of the trades.

[Bart Leetch]

Chuckle!!!! Well Karl maybe if you used a little mouth wash you could get rid of the sour taste. But wait then we couldn't brand you a sour mouth for the rest of your life!!!!

Yes in my own little way I am poking fun at you & others that hold onto a grudge because I used to do the same thing.

Life is just to short to hold a grudge & besides that I'm having a hard time remembering who or what I need to hold a grudge against. I'm finding the old hard drive only holds just so much, so I have to let go of something so the grudges just had to go.

I have seen some of the same problems with other brands of tools with much bigger price tags.

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

You guys would cringe at Northfield equipment prices.

I worked at a shop that had almost everything Grizzly. In a profession shop scenario...... its crap. For the hobbiest it is probably plenty.

So how do you define "pro" shop.I guess if you have a $15,000 euro slider cutting $30 a sheet POS particle board called "melamine" your shop is considered pro.I think alot of the time the title of pro shop is more of a ego or advertising niche for the owner of that shop.

[Bart Leetch]

Karl

Said mostly in jest.....


Well some people cut plywood & hardwoods on an expensive euro-slider others cut them on a Grizzly if adjusted properly they both will help create fine furniture.

100 or even 50 years from now no one will know whether a Grizzly saw was used by a commoner or on a slider by a high fa looting blue blood.

Oh by the way I have a 1940 Unisaw that came with a 3 phase motor I needed a single phase motor & to save a few dollars actually $100 by buying a Grizzly motor & it went right in the Unisaw like it belonged there. There are a lot of Grizzly tools out there in production shops doing just fine. But then maybe you have deeper pockets then the rest of us commoners.

To the rest of you commoners that do have the more expensive equipment congratulations & best wishes.

Oh I forgot I have 6 pieces of Grizzly Equipment none of the really top of the line equipment they make but plenty good enough to work with to maintenance 2 apartment complexes & also do hobby work.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Karl,

A number of years ago Grizzley did have a bad reputation. The owner, a Creeker, decided to change the quality and reputation of the company. He raised the standards for the quality of the equipment they sell and have manufactured.

I don't own a single piece of Grizzley equipment but I will soon. My trigger finger is getting itchy again and I'm about to pull the trigger again.

Like any other company today, Grizzley on occasions will have some quality issues but so does the other manufacturers. I do know there are a lot of satisfied Grizzley equipment owners here at the Creek. That's good enough for me!

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

Karl

Said mostly in jest.....


Well some people cut plywood & hardwoods on an expensive euro-slider others cut them on a Grizzly if adjusted properly they both will help create fine furniture.

100 or even 50 years from now no one will know whether a Grizzly saw was used by a commoner or on a slider by a high fa looting blue blood.

Oh by the way I have a 1940 Unisaw that came with a 3 phase motor I needed a single phase motor & to save a few dollars actually $100 by buying a Grizzly motor & it went right in the Unisaw like it belonged there. There are a lot of Grizzly tools out there in production shops doing just fine. But then maybe you have deeper pockets then the rest of us commoners.

To the rest of you commoners that do have the more expensive equipment congratulations & best wishes.

Thank you Bart for summing it up for this commoner.Glad to see your motor fit.

[Kev Godwin]

Karl,
If you take a look at page 3 of the 2008 Grizzly Industrial Catalog you will find a sample list of Grizzly's customers including a laundry list of several fortune 500 companies. Do you think the purchasing agents for these companies would risk their jobs on a poor purchase? If you look at that list you will also notice several companies that will be using equipment in conditions much heavier in application than any production shop!

Who should have a bad taste in their mouth?
Kev

[jim gossage]

You guys would cringe at Northfield equipment prices.

i looked at the list...oops....i'll be back in a minute....i have to change my underwear.

[Karl Brogger]

So how do you define "pro" shop.I guess if you have a $15,000 euro slider cutting $30 a sheet POS particle board called "melamine" your shop is considered pro.I think alot of the time the title of pro shop is more of a ego or advertising niche for the owner of that shop.

"Pro" as I would define it: Anyone that make a living at it. ie profession, professional, "pro" Shops have idiots, those idiots abuse things, they don't care of anything, and things just get run hard. A saw might get turned on/off 50 times in one day, thats hard on things. It gets packed full of dust and not cleaned out, thats hard on things. Abuse and neglect. Whether the newer stuff is any better I honestly don't know. Their pricing is definetly alot higher than it was even a few years ago. In a magazine ad they have double head widebelt sanders. For a 43" its $21k. That same machine made by Timesavers Inc. is close to $35k. Now does Timesavers just make a product more expensive because they can, or because its made in the US, (or Minnesota), or is it that higher quality components go into the machine? Maybe things are just a bit beefier? Things generally aren't more expensive just because they are. If you want to use cars as a reference why does a KIA cost less than a Chevy, or Cadillac, or Mercedes Benz? Because they have their niche. Most of us can't afford a Benz, or maybe even a Cadillac but you can justify buying the Chevy can't you? I don't want to be stranded by my equipment any more than I do my vehicle. A Northfield shaper costs more than twice what I paid for my newest Powermatic shaper, and four times as much as a Grizzly. Here's the difference where the car comparison ends. A shaper is almost a shaper. Its a motor, a frame, a spindle and some belts. You aren't getting bells and whistles just better quality. I can't afford Northfield equipment but it is to my way of thinking the best stuff available. They are a massive chunk of cast iron, use the best motors and the best switches. They are built to be used by idiots, or G.I. proof as my father would say. The fricken thing weighs 900 lbs for the small table version! But, alas I can't afford Northfield anything, so I buy what I can afford. $30k for a planer? Use one and you'll understand why.

I don't think the Powermatic saw that I bought 4 years ago is as good as some of the older ones I've used. It seems to vibrate more than I'd like, it came with a good motor but a cheap switch. Switch hasn't failed yet, and maybe I just need to do some adjusting to get rid of some of the vibration.

Melamine, yuck... Worst thing to ever happen to cabinetry as well. But you can build a less expensive product that way.

[Steve Rowe]

To get away from the predicatable Grizzly lovefest and back to the OPs question. Everyone has different standards and expectations of their tools and machinery. What is great to one may very well be a piece of junk to another. If you read the OP you will find the answer. Jim has apparently become accustomed to "superb quality" and backing down from that is not likely to make him happy. If what you value is superb quality, go European. If what you value is low cost, go Grizzly or others. I have owned everything from Craftsman to Grizzly and all the way up to high end European equipment and honestly, Grizzly can't hold a candle to it in functionality or quality. It is hard to beat the Grizzly prices. Whether or not it is the "best value" is highly user dependent.

While Karl's 'crap' characterization of Grizzly was a bit harsh, it was based on actual experience with their machinery in a commercial shop. I find it amazing that several fail to grasp that their "great" Grizzly experience could very well be another purchasers nightmare. It is also amazing that people fall for the endorsement advertising hype on page 3 of a catalog. Get real! - do you really think they would publish the experiences of Karl and a number of others in their catalog.

With respect to the grudge accusation (in jest I think?), in Karl's post, it is obvious he was not the purchaser of the equipment therefore, how could he hold a grudge? He was not out any $. He offered his perspective from an end user point of view and that bears much more credence than what he has been given. I was a purchaser of 3 Grizzly machines and found them all to be lacking in both quality and performance (Note: "Mortal sin" police should refer to my previous posts for the facts supporting this statement and is hereby incorporated by reference). Would you also accuse me of holding a grudge? You could but, it would not be true as I freely acknowledge that I got exactly what I paid for. Grudge no, I chalk it up as a learning experience and I learned lessons that I will not repeat, ever.

Jim, whatever your choice, remember that the aignst of poor quality lasts much much longer than the joy of getting a good price.

Steve

[William OConnell]

To get away from the predicatable Grizzly lovefest and back to the OPs question. Everyone has different standards and expectations of their tools and machinery. What is great to one may very well be a piece of junk to another. If you read the OP you will find the answer. Jim has apparently become accustomed to "superb quality" and backing down from that is not likely to make him happy. If what you value is superb quality, go European. If what you value is low cost, go Grizzly or others. I have owned everything from Craftsman to Grizzly and all the way up to high end European equipment and honestly, Grizzly can't hold a candle to it in functionality or quality. It is hard to beat the Grizzly prices. Whether or not it is the "best value" is highly user dependent.

While Karl's 'crap' characterization of Grizzly was a bit harsh, it was based on actual experience with their machinery in a commercial shop. I find it amazing that several fail to grasp that their "great" Grizzly experience could very well be another purchasers nightmare. It is also amazing that people fall for the endorsement advertising hype on page 3 of a catalog. Get real! - do you really think they would publish the experiences of Karl and a number of others in their catalog.

With respect to the grudge accusation (in jest I think?), in Karl's post, it is obvious he was not the purchaser of the equipment therefore, how could he hold a grudge? He was not out any $. He offered his perspective from an end user point of view and that bears much more credence than what he has been given. I was a purchaser of 3 Grizzly machines and found them all to be lacking in both quality and performance (Note: "Mortal sin" police should refer to my previous posts for the facts supporting this statement and is hereby incorporated by reference). Would you also accuse me of holding a grudge? You could but, it would not be true as I freely acknowledge that I got exactly what I paid for. Grudge no, I chalk it up as a learning experience and I learned lessons that I will not repeat, ever.

Jim, whatever your choice, remember that the aignst of poor quality lasts much much longer than the joy of getting a good price.

Steve

Steve
Thank you for your time in writing that post. I personally am an owner of an 8" Grizzley Jointer and am happy with it. Ive used some of there other stuff and found it wasnt up to my minimum quality standards. I think you cant blanket the Company as either good or bad as for some its just what the doctor ordered for others not so much.
I needed a new planer and pondered the Grizzly but because of my respect for old Iron I found an old powermatic 16" for $800. I need something thats time tested and 1 1930-40s powermatic is. I love it.

[Peter Quinn]

Bravo and ditto Steve for clear thinking and elequent writing. Buying a tool based on hear say and consumer reporting is a difficult proposition at best. Add in the varied needs and expectations of the woodworking community and you have chaos. If the machine allows you to do what you want to the wood then you have the right machine for you. Pity there isn't some way to actually try out these tools and compare their working properties for yourself before purchasing (there is no such thing in my area).

My experience with grizzly FWIW has been both professional and personal use. In a medium/large pro shop making moldings, passage doors and custom cabinets/millwork there were several pieces of griz equipment, specifically an over arm pin router and a dust collector. Neither was as good as competing grands (Like Onsrud or Airtec). They were both considered suplemental equipment (not put to heavy daily use) so they stayed.

Other pieces of griz eqipment were tried and found inadequit for a small industrial environment. Their bandsaw (20"), shaper (5HP) and TS (cabinet saw, don't know which one) simply didn't hold a candle to things like Laguna, old PM and SCMI equipment. Their ability to be set up quickly and maintain accuracy during production simply didn't match the environment. They had an overall lightweight feeling in direct comparison to other pieces of machinery. Guys didn't like using them which matters when you do it every day for a living.

When outfitting my home shop I put a toe in the water and bought a Griz 1HP power feeder for use on my shaper and I will tell you NO, it is not as good as as others I have used in the same class. The central casting is stout, the XYZ axis operates smoothly, the basics work well, but the devil is in the details. The drive wheels are crap and need to be replaced, they use a cheap hard rubber instead of a sticky gum type, not a nice feature in a drive wheel. The hand wheels for adjustment (ie: the parts that stick out in the breeze and are most likely to be bumped and broken) are molded plastic. For a few bucks more I can add metal ones as these fail. The motor is a lower grade than competitors, and that's where I'm stuck. I have pushed a Steff and powermatic powerfeeder hard for hours and never had a problem...continuous duty means continuous duty! The Griz has overheated and stopped under heavy load on long runs causing me to lose material and time. Let it cool off and it works fine again. For what I saved I wish I'd bought a better unit.

If your thinking Grizzly has some magician running the show who has figured out how to make equipment as good as the big brands for half the price you are fooling yourself. Every piece of equipment I have seen from them is less than best of breed and contains some compromises to achieve the price point. None of what I've used has been crap, its all a fair value. In Grizzly I see a efficient growing company heading slowly upmarket. If their goods meet your needs then buy them. If you want the best and can afford it or need it, don't look to them because they dont sell it. For every post I read that sounds like, "My Grizzly is just as good as.....me thinks thou dost protest too much!"

[Karl Brogger]

Whew! I was starting to wonder if I was on a one sided battle here. I'm a blunt instrument, I say whatever I feel I need to get my point across. So "crap" is me leaping to the point.

[Bart Leetch]

Hey Karl

Thats OK we understand we all have our likes & dislikes.

Besides that you ain't in a battle YET

You know come to think about it a big slider would fit real nice in my shop as long as I didn't want to use it, the shop is 13'5"x24'5" .

For me I do apartment repairs & hobby work with my tools & some of my tools are better than Dad's tools that he had as a builder & cabinet maker.

They didn't have the tools available to the small shop owner back then & if they did they were way to expensive for someone just starting out. Most of my Dads floor model equipment was Craftsman from the 50's & 60's.

I have them too. Some of them are in storage i.e. (Series 100 10" table-saw & jointer 50's)& (early 60's 10" RAS) I have his 1967 Craftsman 12" RAS in the shop as well as his Craftsman shaper & Davis & Wells shaper & Belsaw planer. I know these tools are not what you would pick but thats ok. I just wish I had a bigger shop I now have almost 2 of everything.


Just remember you won't see me calling your kind of tools crap just because they don't meet my needs. In the case of my needs May I call them over kill?

From looking at what my Dad had to work with to what the average hobby worker has now days all I can say they need to quit their whining. Of course this doesn't include commercial shops.