Rockler's NEW CNC Machine - CNC Shark

[Richard Rumancik]

You can find the Rockler pricing on the Next Wave Automation website

www.nextwaveautomation.com/Pricing.aspx

It is about $3300 (around $1000 more).

Just an additional note: Seems the bigger model comes with the latest Vcarve software (4.6) while the smaller one shows the down-level software (3.1).

[Keith Outten]

At $3,300.00 the larger Shark is getting very close to the price of a ShopBot PRSstandard BT32 Buddy that lists for $3,995.00

If you compare the two machines I think it would make the decision real easy to make. The difference in price isn't significant when you consider the performance capabilities and you purchase direct from the company that builds them.

Shop wisely Grasshopper

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[Anthony Scira]

It seems like its always a little bit more.

I was thinking Compucarve for 1800. Then Shark for 2295. Then the Shark Pro for 3300. Then the Buddy for 4000.

The next step is never that painful. But when you step back from it its a pretty big step.

But after taking the Epilog plunge this does not seem that bad.

[Keith Outten]

Anthony,

It took me two years to pay for my laser engraver and just one week to pay for my ShopBot. The ShopBot is ten times more profitable than my laser engraver, I guess because the type of work it does (signs in my case) is perceived by customers as being more valuable.

I think my ShopBot was just under $12,000.00 when I purchased it three years ago and I can't imagine not owning one. The company that designs, builds and sells them is top notch and their support never ends. You would be hard pressed to find a ShopBot owner who is not 100% satisfied with their machine. What started out as a one man company in Durham North Carolina a few years ago now ships more CNC Routers per year than any other manufacturer. That says a lot about ShopBot.

When you move to CNC you enter into a three dimensional world that can be very complex. You need support periodically as your skills grow and you attempt to machine more complex projects. You also need software updates and the versatility to customize your machine when the need arises.

Even if you plan to use your CNC router just for hobby work it is nice to find out that you can make money on occasion when an opportunity presents itself...and it will.

I like what i see in the Shark design, they seem to be very well made machines for the money...in fact i expect the Shark is a step up from the Carvewright machines. Based on what I have learned running my CNC Router there is so much work available the price of the machine isn't a big issue, it may be at first but you will soon forget the purchase price when your machine starts producing. The only decision to make is which machine will be reliable, nothing else is pertinent in my opinion. This has not been true concerning any other machine that I have ever purchased.

Go to a ShopBot Camp and you will find a very close community of people who are excited about their machines and what they have been able to do with them. If you do your homework and look very close at the machines available I think you will be more comfortable with your final decision.

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[Lee DeRaud]

At $3,300.00 the larger Shark is getting very close to the price of a ShopBot PRSstandard BT32 Buddy that lists for $3,995.00

I suspect that's why Rockler isn't particularly excited about marketing the larger Shark. But for their hobbyist base, I think the smaller unit hits a sweet-spot between the CraveWright and the smallest "real CNC" both in price and overall size.

The BT32 is a nice machine but it's only "compact" when compared to the larger ShopBots: it's about the same size as a Unisaw.
(Translation: "Sorry, honey, from now on both cars will have to stay in the driveway.")

[Peter Elliott]

Keith,

You hit a lot of value points. I am excited about the Buddy, but Shopbot advertise this price BT32 but is that out the door (minus a PC). Looking at their web, it doesn't really say. There seems to be a lot of "options" with BT32 and having no exp., are they need item or a nice to have item?

I will go to shopbot camp and try to get answers. But I fear, a shopbot may end up in the $4500 range, which is 2x the Shark.

Also Keith, please chime in here.

I hear SOO much about how we can pay off our CNC with work but I have yet to read how, someone making $$ point (me)us in that direction with ideas. Or "this is how we make $$ with our CNC" would be nice and I understand if you don't want to give out all your secrets...

Looking at the shark, the JoeCNC2006 U-build it system is far better than the shark - Cost is about $1500 or less, software $400 (Mach3, 2DCarve)
But you have to build it all, no warranty, service for the most part.

Nothing is easy...

[Kenneth Hertzog]

OK

I looked at the shopbot web site, and I would like to have the room for the 4'x8' model but I don't. When I look at the BT32(buddy) and the price on the web site said $7195.00. where do we get this $3995 price and is that all inclusive?
maybe I missed something but that is double the price of the shark pro.

Just what I'm seeing

ken

[SCOTT ANDREWS]

[quote=Kenneth Hertzog;814177]OK

I looked at the shopbot web site, and I would like to have the room for the 4'x8' model but I don't. When I look at the BT32(buddy) and the price on the web site said $7195.00. where do we get this $3995 price and is that all inclusive?
maybe I missed something but that is double the price of the shark pro.

Just what I'm seeing

There are 2 models.The Alpha and the standard.The standard according to their website is $4,555.00.The one you saw probably the Alpha.

[Doug Hoffman]

There is also a new ShopBot. It's the BT48,same as the BT32 only 50% larger.The price of the ShopBots vary greatly.You can get either a router or a spindle,which come in several models.Of course also there is the standard and Alpha models of each Bot,as noted.The new BT48 can also take the new option of the "powerstick".It is a 48" extention table,so you can handle the occasional 4'x8' sheet. The shipping cost of the ShopBot is pretty high also,it is a heavy,well built machine.

[Greg Cuetara]

With all of the cnc discussion I have a question. The shark runs off of a dremel type of tool where as Joe's Cnc or the shop bot run off of a spindle or a real router. What is the life of the dremel and can you do as much. Is it worth the upgrade just to have a real router where you can use real bits and have some real power behind the machine?
With the shark if you start doing any kind of production work will you burn out the motor on the dremel?
just something to think about with the hole purchase.
Greg

[Bruce Page]

Greg, the picture of the Shark shows it using a Bosch Colt trim router. The Colt is a nice trim router but you are limited to a ¼” shank diameter.

Here’s a look at the Colt; http://www.bibbtool.com/product/2579

[Keith Outten]

Peter,

Think Signs! Everywhere you look there are signs...somebody has to make all these signs
The Federal Government and the American Disabilities Act (ADA) have created one of the best markets for sign makers by requiring all public buildings to have ADA compliant signs with Braille and raised text. It takes a little work and planning to start making ADA signs but it assures that you will never run out of work if there is commercial construction in your area. ADA door signs sell for at least $45.00 to $65.00 each and one man can make ten to twenty per day. Your cost of materials is less than seven dollars each...do the math. I have already made thousands of them and I have worked on my technique until I have cut my time in half since I started making door signs.

You would also be surprised how much machining work is available these days. Cutting plywood templates for construction companies, custom ceiling access panels, Corian light switches..I could go on for hours there is so much work. All you have to do is open your eyes and look outside of the traditional types of jobs. One of the best traditional jobs is making Corian signs for golf courses, they will last for fifty years and require almost no maintenance.

I just finished machining two custom Corian light cover trim plates at CNU, these were originally supposed to be cast bronze but we made them from Corian and saved a bundle. Brady Watson machined our new 72" diameter brass medallion for the marble floor in our new Library, I will post some pictures of the finished job to share in a couple days.

You can cut cabinet parts for local shops and machine custom logo's on counter tops for your local cabinet shops...there is work everywhere you look. Don't look to close at the places you would expect to find work, you can starve to death doing carving work unless you are really talented. Look at your friendly neighborhood laser engravers, they will purchase custom plaques from a CNC operator and you can team up with some on large ADA jobs, you cut the plaques and let them engrave them.

Kenneth and Scott, there are two Buddy models, the PRSalpha and the PRSstandard. Look at the chart at the bottom of this page for the $3,995.00 PRSstandard Buddy. It ships with all of the software you need but you will have to purchase your own router or spindle.

Greg, imagine your CNC router running continuously for four to eight hours. A dremel tool isn't a router and a trim router isn't made for the kind of work you expect a CNC machine to accomplish. I use a Porter Cable 3.25 HP router in my ShopBot and it performs well. It won't last as long as a spindle but a spindle can cost you $2,800.00 new. My PC router cost me $280.00 and when it is worn out it goes right in the trash and a new one takes its place. Every time a PC router hits the trash can it means I made a lot of money

I have been asked to speak at a couple of the annual ShopBot Jamborees and my message was to all the people who either had just purchased a new ShopBot or to those who were thinking about buying a ShopBot. They all are wondering how can I pay for this machine and how long will it take me to learn to operate a ShopBot. I tell them that it is possible to make more money per day machining simple projects than some of the experienced ShopBotters make producing beautiful 3D carving work and very high end carved signs. I started making Corian cutting boards and sold them for $39.95 as fast as I could make them...and I made them from free Corian sink cut-outs I was getting from a local counter top shop You can wholesale them to local bed and baths or kitchen specialty shops for 40 bucks as fast as you can make them.

Note that I use a lot of Dupont Corian. Don't listen to people who say that Corian is expensive. Hogwash! A sheet of Glacier White Corian wholesales for $260.00 from my local distributor and I machine 60 door signs from each sheet, that's $4.33 per sign blank. Not one of my competitors in my area are making Corian signs

1. Take a piece of Corian and fasten it on your ShopBot table.
2. Vcarve your text and any graphics...and you can route your sign perimeter in any shape imaginable.
3. Paint the Vcarved areas with a can of your favorite spray paint.
4. Run your random orbital sander over the sign, this removes the paint on the surface and leaves the paint in the carved areas.
5. Bill Em!

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[Rob Wright]

I had used a Rigid trim router in my home built for the first few months. I have ruined one and had it replaced by warranty but the "whine" of the motor really was getting to me, and by me I mean my wife and therefore me by association. The runout and overall destruction motor by having a trim router run for 1 to 2 hours straight at a time is hard on the bearings and brushes. Some of the intricate Vcarves and 3D shapes can really take some time on the machines.

I have since built a mount for a PC 690 and we are all much happier.

I got the CNC bug a little over a year ago when the Carvewright came out. I Built mine for $600 then have added Mach3 & Vcarve. The plans available on CNCZone.com are great. I would like to upgrade to a 'bot sometime in the future. Joes Hybrid 4x4 looks pretty decent, and right now I am having a hard time trying to decide if I should just build another, or by a BT32/48. If I go with a 'bot, I will go with a standard. From what I have read, you would rarely use the cutting speeds of the Alpha in a hobby situation. I would like to get a spindle for the noise factor - but the price is definitely a limiting factor.

I have heard that the Joe's Hybrid 4x4 can be built for $1600-$2400 and be able to use half sheets of plywood with great results.

$0.02
- Rob

[Frank Triana]

I've been listening to all of you and this is all very interesting. Back in the early 80s I worked for an outfit called Anilam. They retrofitting CNC controls on machine tool, along with digital read outs was my/their forte. The use of encoders, glass scales, servo motors, harden ways, and precision ground ball screws determine how long these machines are going to last. While they do extensive burn ins at the factory, electronics aren't as reliable as the hardware and or the actual machine.
Has anyone here considered buying an old/salvage mill and doing a retrofit? (remember that electronics will always go down in price) Fact is that some of these machine remind me of a school CNC lab, which were used for training. The large gantry machines have a bigger work envelope, but they are used to do light engraving in machine shops. However, most HAAS's a letter/number software package included in their along with their conversational software. The metal industry is discarding some still usable machines as advancements come along.
I've seen some awesome work by the members here and together we could build a better CNC machine for the wood shop. Just as dual core is replaced by quad core in the PC's. Isn't anyone still using a P4? Just a random thought to drum up some discussion.

[Paul Kunkel]

I'd like to correct come of these inacuracys. The Carvewright will do alot more than some people will give it credit for. There is alot of mis-information out there!

[QUOTE=Peter Elliott;812722]
CNC Shark.
Through plunge cuts cannot be achieved on the Carvewright without special setup not recommended for Carvewright machine.
False-through cuts are done all the time . The 1/8" cutting bit even comes as standard issue.

Shark
Can work on longer pieces of wood (You can cut up to 24 inches (Length) at a time before repositioning stock.
False-Carvewright can run wood up to 12 ft. long with proper support in one pass/design You can get a 19 inch wide piece of wood in between the gantry but you can only cut 13 inches ( 6.5 inches either side off center).
Carvewright can run 14 1/2" wide.

Can achieve a plunge through cut, but you do not normally cut any deeper than the width of the bit to ensure clean chip removal. There is also the “tabs” option in the V-Carve software that allows you to keep a small .030 inch tab in place when cutting out a part.
Same with the Carvewright. Built into the software.

Router is a separate component from the machine itself. (replacement cost of around $100 rather than the cost of a new Carvewright.)
Takes about 15 min. to replace a Carvewright motor, but most run hundreds of hours before even needing new brushes.

User may use any router bit that fits their router.
Carvewright can use other router bits also.