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Thread: Karl Holtey $5000 ?!?!

  1. #1

    Karl Holtey $5000 ?!?!

    Why would you pay nearly $5000 for a new plane?

    I just found this plane maker, the pricing seems very high.

    http://www.thebestthings.com/newtool...ltey_tools.htm

    How many professional woodworkers out there would find this tool a must have? Is this plane that much better than others?

  2. #2
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    I'd guess it is for a person with a very great deal of money, and not someone earning a living in wood, unless it is the extremely rare individual who does both. [Can't think of any.]

  3. #3
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    You'd think for $5000, the plane wouldn't look like the handles where in danger of falling off with any excuse at all. Suppose that is more art than tool? Looks to me like it has the a slightly abstract infulence.....

  4. #4
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    While I don't have one, I've heard that they do indeed function wonderfully. Karl traditionally made mostly infills, and has just started making some of his own design. They are hand made works of art. Does one NEED one...depends on discretionary funds. Lots of things out there for sale...cars, guns, tools, boats,etc. that we don't really need, but are fun to have.

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    Hotley

    There will always be those with more money than sense.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Vanbokklen View Post
    Why would you pay nearly $5000 for a new plane?
    ...
    The same reason some people pay $kaching$ for Maseratis, Porsches, Hummers, etc. Some people just want to buy the best whether they need it nor not. I'm hoping to meet a Maserati drivin babe who wants to buy me a Holtey for Christmas.
    Use the fence Luke

  7. #7
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    My Thoughts

    On one of the financial shows, I heard a wealthy person described as one who has 100 million or more. If I were wealthy, I would probably buy one as $5000 would be pocket change.

    In the meantime I wonder if just as many of these planes would be sold if the price were $7500 or $10,000? That would tend to make them more exclusive.

    Roy

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Vanbokklen View Post
    ...How many professional woodworkers out there would find this tool a must have? Is this plane that much better than others?

    The only full-timer I know that owns a Holtey (actually more than one) is Garrett Hack. Pretty much a professional, eh?

    Karl was the first real perfectionist machinist making planes. But he's no longer the only one. nor is he the only one making higher-priced quality planes. Konrad Sauer and Wayne Anderson come to mind. I love the traditional perfection of Konrad's planes and the shear artistic beauty of Wayne's.

    I find the conversations over the cost of tools from such makers funny at times. Just what should a man (generic usage btw) earn from his toils? Should he make $10 an hour (or less) so that he can hit a more popular price-point? $20 an hour? $30/hr? More? What exactly would be a fair wage so that they can make the tools they desire to make?

    Ah, rant off I suppose.

    Take care, Mike
    back to lurking--well, actually back to work.

  9. #9
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    I would like to see it compared side by side with a Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen low angle plane. My bet is that it would make the exact same shavings.
    on the road during the week, will reply to PMs on weekends.

  10. #10
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    The Holtey infill planes are SO HEAVY. You feel like if you just give it a tiny push that it'll carve its own way through anything below it.

    They really are so heavy, so bloody smooth...amazing planes to feel, touch, and cut with. I certainly don't have one but an affluent buddy of mine does and he lets me play with it on occasion.

    Why did he pay 3-4-5k for his? Well, because he can afford it and because he simply loves collecting planes of all varieties and can appreciate the handwork that went into making it. Each to their own.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  11. #11
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    Makes Those Planes on eBay Look Cheap...

    I just found this plane maker, the pricing seems very high.
    Maybe this will put some perspective on those Stanley #4s that go for more than $20 on that auction site that shall not be named.

    Just my 2¢

    jim

  12. #12
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    Like Mike, I am always amused when there is talk of extravagance when spending Big Bucks on tools. What constitutes BB? What is a lot for some is reasonable for another.

    It is also a matter of priorities - how much should one spend on a motorcar? And would you rather spend on a motorcar or tools or XYZ?

    There is also the assumption that expensive tools reduce profit. But what if profit is not part of the equation, and instead fun and pleasure is?

    What would you spend on a set of golf clubs, or a tennis racquet?

    When I was racing on the windsurfing circuits, I used to get new boards (usually one, sometimes 2 or even three) every year, plus a set of 4 or 5 sails. This was considerably more costly than woodworking. And I am not wealthy .... just obsessional I do have one rule, however .. all my costs must be born by my profits from or efforts in woodworking (keep in mind that I am not a professional woodworker).

    Are the supertools worth it? (I suppose one should also ask "what constitutes a supertool?").

    I love my half back Wenzloff saw (and I could include the IT dovetai saw that Mike re-filed for me - that makes it half-a-Wenzloff ). Wenzloff saws must be the cheapest supertools on the market.

    There is a law of diminishing returns as the price goes up. But you still get what ou pay for. The Marcou S15 smoother I have is the best smoother I have ever used. It is simply phenomenal. Others here have used one as well (Hi Mark!). It is beautifully made and a special experience to use. The LV BUS is a superb smoother and gives the Marcou a run for its money. However the Marcou is still that much better when the chips are down.

    So who buys a Holtey? There are those that do so for art sake, and there are those that buy them as tools.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek

  13. The premium toolmarket seems to have blossomed of late. Not sure why that is--perhaps the cost of working metal in something other than an industrial facility has come down enough. But though I'll probably never own one of those planes, I'm sure glad they are around and there are still people, like Mike, like Konrad, like Jim Leamy, like Thomas L-N, and many others dedicated to artisanal craftsmanship.

    As others have already said, $5,000 isn't a lot of money given the time put into making those tools. And you know that people pay a lot more than that for other works of art. Might not make a lot of sense to those of us without the disposable income, but if your gauge for "sensible cost" is just above something which offers sheer utility, it probably doesn't make sense to you that anyone would buy anything other than Ikea furniture. People like Mr. Lie-Nielsen have found ways to balance production runs with cost and quality. Others work to order and their costs generally go up (and if they don't, well, they're doing you an extreme favor, right Mike? ).

    Anyway, I'm just beginning to explore this small universe of domestic, small production toolmakers. It'll be some time before I can afford or justify something like a Holtey, and chances are I'll never get there. But even beyond the tools themselves, I'll never cease to admire the dedication and passion these individuals bring to their craft. The artifacts fashioned out of these toolmakers' blood, sweat, and tears make me want to be better at what I do, both at work and in my shop. I for one am very glad that these tools and the people who can afford them exist, if only to show the rest of us that quality and craft can still mean something tangible in this increasingly mass production world.
    Last edited by Narayan Nayar; 03-21-2008 at 12:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Even though this is the Neander forum, I'd buy a SawStop before I bought one of those planes. That plane doesn't retract it's blade if it hits your skin.

    But seriously, I'd get a lot more use out of the SawStop.

    Mike
    Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.

  15. #15
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    5000 is on the lower end of his scale. I know guys that own several of his planes.
    I see people spend that much on stupid accessories for their cars. far more other things that are nor more useful. what about collectors that spend bucks just to have the item sit around?
    I have spoken to Karl a couple of times and he is a nice guy. he only averages 1 plane or so a month. his shop cost him over 100k but he has to make 20 sets of plane parts at a time because of setup times. so he has to sit on all of this material for long periods of time.
    Steve knight
    cnc routing

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