Cracking up in Arizona

[Troy Donson]

Ok so I am relatively new to turning and have really been sucked in deep...

I have made about a dozen or so laminated bowls, jars and pencil holders out of odd scraps of wood I have had in the garage. I went to a Phoenix, AZ Woodworking store and purchased a bunch of those wax covered "Bowl Blanks". A couple Cocobolo, a Tulipwood, a bunch of Redheart among others...

So far I have destroyed 2 of the redhearts, a Curly Maple, and the Tulipwood. Figure about $75 worth cracked to pieces.

Troy - 0

Cracked Wood -4

I followed everything I could find about the DeNatured Alcohol drying process and (I thought) followed it to the letter.

To anyone who wants to help, here is what I was doing:

Cut the blank round on the bandsaw. Most started as 6" X 6" X 3" blocks.

Mount to the lathe, turn it to the rough shape I want, leaving 10% of the diameter of the bowl in the walls and bottom ( 5" bowl would have .5" sides and bottom)

Emerse the blank in DNA, seal the lid, set aside for 24-48 hrs. Remove from can and let dry for 1 hour (or until the bowl "looks dry"). Wrap in at least eight layers of newspaper and cut out the middle section of the depression, put upside down on a cake rack inside my home office closet (cool, dry, dark and no breezes from the A/C). Come back and check in 2 weeks and the bowl(s) are cracked completely through the sides and/or the bottom.

From what I have read the drying normally takes between 2-6 weeks. So, is it because I am in Arizona with it's dry air that these are drying too fast? If it is, what are my options?

I went ahead and turned out the resulting "Crack Pots" and finished them, attempting to practice "pushing BLO" (thanks to Jim Becker's technique) right up until the curly maple one exploded off the lathe. ("Centrifugal Force, meet Troy. Troy, Centrifugal Force!) Besides knocking the week's garbage all over the garage floor as I tried to occupy the same space the garbage can was occupying at the same time in my hast to clear the blast zone, no damage except to my pride. The LOML happened to open the door to the garage as I was trying to get up and disentangle myself. Bless her heart, she just made sure nothing was torn off and/or bleeding, saw that I was actually conscious and, shaking her head, left again without saying a word.

To be honest at this point I am not very fond of wet wood right now. I am getting my "fix" by turning my laminated stuff until I find out what I have been doing wrong... There must be something I am missing and I have no idea what it is...

Thanks for any help,

Troy

[Steve Schlumpf]

Troy - sounds like you did everything by the numbers. I am not an expert but would suggest the following:

The fact that the bowls have cracked means they dried to fast and that is most likely due to your location. I would take steps to slow the drying process down. First I would leave the bowl a little thicker - closer to 5/8" - 3/4". Second, I would not let the bowl sit for more than a few minutes - once it is out of the bath - before wrapping it. I always used brown paper bags (thicker) and wrapped the bowl while still fairly wet but not dripping. I used masking tape and taped the paper bag to itself.

Sounds like the location you have the bowls drying in should work but if you continue to have problems you will have to restrict the airflow even more.

As I mentioned - I am no expert but would highly suggest you contact Dave Smith - who is the expert. You should be able to reach him here: http://alcoholsoaking.blogspot.com/

Best of luck with your drying! Looking forward to seeing a completed bowl real soon!

[Troy Donson]

Here are some not-so-good pictures of what has been happening...

3 are of the tulipwood and 1 of the Redhearts. The Redheart was not completely turned on the botom because it was, at this point, good to me only for finishing practice...

[Troy Donson]

Thanks, Steve.

I will write to Dave and see what his take on this is...

I am completely amazed at what you folks do and really do enjoy the peacefull feeling of turning wood. The stress of my regular job makes this a joy and I do not want to give up yet.

That being said, I can't see blowing my wood budget on "experimenting" either... So if anyone else has any clue please chime in.

Thanks

Troy

[Tom Sherman]

Troy you might consider that the wood wasn't as 'green' as you were led to believe. I have purchased 'green wood' before and discovered that there were already cracks in it. Check your wood carefully before you buy. HTH

[robert hainstock]

send them to me, i'll patch them up and finish them. seriously, that can happen after yars of suppoedly drying in a very dry atmosphere. I have a 3in thick maple plamk that has been in my very dry basement for over ten years devekope surface cracks over the years. A piece of ebony that has been stored in my wood bin crack when I used some of it for pen blanks. Point is wood is libel to do that afyter many years, or right away. I'm usong that maple for bowl blanks anyway, It is birdseye. I would try to save those blanks with CA nad damn the torpedos.
Bob

[Troy Donson]

Thanks Tom.

The blanks in question were completely covered in wax and were quite heavy. Not very easy to see what was the actual condition until I started turning them. They seemed very solid before attempting to "dry" them.

When turning them there were absolutely no cracks and they turned very easily. Nice long curls coming off the gouges... The curls, when held in my hand, were actually rather "moist".

I just wrote Dave Smith and will see what he has to say and post back here. I am still looking for advice though.

Troy

[Scott Hubl]

Store bought waxed blanks bought at places like Woodcraft and Rockler ect. should be ready to turn or close to it.

I buy mine bring home and just set up on wire rack shelving for a month to let acclimate to my shop .




Then just turn to Finish. Unless I notice the blank is wet , I'll just stop turning it and set it aside in a brown paper bag and grab another one.

I have never done the DNA thing, but could the blanks be dry already and the DNA process is cracking them?

[Dennis Peacock]

Troy,

Let's try this.....

1. Turn your pieces "thinner" and make sure the bottom of the bowls are thinner by about 1/8" than the walls. Try for an even wall thickness from the rim to the bottom.
2. Place it in an alky bath for about 4 hours.
3. Take it out and wrap it in 4 layers of newspaper and tape it all closed.
4. Take some wax paper from the LOML's kitchen and wrap only the outside of the now paper wrapped bowl but leave the "what would be paper opening" to the bowl closed by only the newspaper.
This is force a slower dry of the blank and will allow most of the drying to be done from the inside of the bowl.

I've been wanting to help solve problems like this for some time now and this is a wild shot as it's humid here most all the time and the alky bath process is a huge hit for me by making almost 100% of all my bowl blanks usable.

Can we try this on one? Am I crazy for suggesting it? Maybe so, but I think it's worth a try. Worse case scenario? I'll owe you a bowl blank.

[Troy Donson]

Ok now you have gone and done it!!! Give me hope where I was just about to give up!!

Pray tell where can I find a good article for repairing with "super glue" ? I have some "medium" CA. Should I use that or give the "thick" a shot?

BTW, the cracks in the tulipwood, well, you can see daylight through them... Still saveable?

Thanks

Troy

[Ron Erickson]

Troy, from my experimenting, my house gets very dry in the winter, you have two possible problems. From the pictures of your bowls I would make them thinner, a 6" bowl no more than 1/2" at the rim and then thinner down the sides and the bottom always thinner than the rim and sides. I learned this from Bill Grumbine's DVD. A smaller tenon on the bottom may even help. Also with the dry air you have you can slow down the drying by completely (no hole) wrapping them in many layers of newspaper and then putting them in brown paper bags. The slower they dry the better. After 2 or 3 weeks you may want to remove a few layers of paper.

[Al Wasser]

I live in So. Colo. and our humidities are like those in AZ. I know- I worked there! I found out early not to spend $ of green wood. It may crack within days of getting it, wax covered or what ever. I only buy dry wood. Any green wood I work with is local found or given wood. I don't feel so bad if it cracks.
Put the word out to friends and coworkers that you want wood if they are removing trees, or doing heavy pruning.

[Barry Richardson]

I turn a lot of green wood here in AZ, but I use mostly the free kind. My method is the old standby of turning rough, putting the bowl in a double brown paper bag or cardboard box, pack with the damp shavings, and wait a month or so. I've had good luck, even with woods that people say are difficult, like eucalyptus and carob, and I'm a rookie. With green wood, a bit of cracking is common. Just look at it as an opportunity to hone your skills at fills and repairs.

[Jason Clark2]

Troy, I turn a lot of green wood here in AZ too. My method is to turn to 10% thickness and then completely seal them in brown paper bags before putting them on shelves over the laundry room inside the house. 6-8 weeks later they are removed from the bag and left to dry on the same shelves for another 6-8 weeks before being moved back to the garage where they sit until I can get back to them for final turning.

I still end up with some cracked pieces, it's the nature of the beast with green wood here in AZ. I do not consider wood purchased from Woodcraft, Rockler, etc. as dry. It's covered with wax for a reason.

Barry and Troy, I highly recommend that both of you join your local AAW chapter, the Arizona Woodturners Association. We meet monthly, usually in Tempe. You can find more information on our website, http://www.azwoodturners.org or feel free to contact me via PM.

Jason

[Don McIvor]

When I lived in NV I had a really tough time keeping blanks together. As others have suggested here the air is just too dry and blanks dry out too quickly. I'll throw out a few thoughts you might add to your list of things to try.

You might want to just turn your bowls and finish them in one session. If they're a little green and warp after you've finished them, it's called "art." The thinner wall of a finished piece is less prone to cracking.

Mike Mahoney (who lives in another desert state) paints his roughed out blanks with anchorseal or an equivalent. He's reported loosing very few pieces to cracking, but I think he also has a fairly controlled environment where he lets the blanks dry.

You might think about setting up a drying facility where you can control the climate to some degree. I'm thinking of an old fridge or freezer where you could keep an eye on the humidity. You do want some air circulation to let the humidity escape and prevent mold growth.

For those pieces that have cracked, I'd be tempted to fill the cracks with something interesting (brass, coffee grounds, sawdust of a contrasting color...) and epoxy or CA and then go ahead and turn them. Just be aware that the structural integrity of the blank is compromised, don't stand in the flight path, and listen to the wood as you're cutting for sounds that it may be coming apart.