Old plane irons..

[Mike Henderson]

Good point, Wilbur. Almost all my reading on the history of iron and steel has been of the history of Western iron and steel, and because of that, my comments tend to be about western history. I appreciate you pointing how things were different in the east.

Of course, China invented the blast furnace much earlier than the west, and invented the making of steel from cast iron long before Bessemer. And India invented crucible steel many centuries before Huntsman.

Mike

[Jim Andrew]

This is an interesting discussion, modern versus old. I think hand tools are such a small industry, compared to all the machines produced, the steel companies are just not very concerned about the small volume industry. They are making steel for the large consumers. When you consider the parts that are in tractors, vehicles, industrial machinery, some parts have very good quality material in them. Look at the number of hours you get out of modern farm equipment compared to the equipment of the 30's. Now the "good used" farm tractors on farm equipment dealers lots have 9000 hours on them. The old ones were worn out and scrapped before they went that far. And lots of user machines have 10 to 12000 hours on them. So quality steel is still out there, it's just a matter of where it is used. Jim

[harry strasil]

Off the subject maybe, but as a blacksmith, Its amazing how many young people want you to spend 2 or 3 hours with them, teaching them blacksmithing so they can go home and make a Sword that will cut thru a Machine gun barrel in one stroke. Most people today, especially the young, not matter what craft it may be, usually don't want to take the time and patience to learn the craft to start with. We are in a hurry up and make it society and the skills learned and passed down from the old to the new has suffered greatly because of this. We are in the Machine age where everything supposedly can be done very easily and quickly with modern technology, and the lessons and skills of the past are mostly gone except for a few who have taken the time to learn from the few of the past generation who did the same thing to acquire their skills. Just because its new does not mean it is better than the past. Some things yes, others no.

As an example: Hippocrates, the father of medicine had it down pretty good for his time, then it got lost when he passed, how many centuries passed before his teachings were researched and modern medicine was again reborn.

[Mike Henderson]

"The world is passing through troubling times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress." Peter the Hermit (Priest who helped organize the first crusade around 1100)

“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words. When I was a boy, we were taught to be discrete and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise and impatient of restraint.” Hesiod 700BC

"In case you're worried about what's going to become of the younger generation, it's going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation." Roger Allen

"The dead might as well try to speak to the living as the old to the young." Willa Cather

There's also a good quote from Roman times but I can't find it right now.

Mike

[Our kids are us, maybe more than we like to admit.]