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Thread: Veneer Vacuum System Design / Bag Secret

  1. #1

    Veneer Vacuum System Design / Bag Secret

    I just recently purhased the Venturi Vacuum System Press kit from VeneerSupplies .com and came up with this housing design for a number of reasons I would like to share w/ my fellow Creekers.
    The system calls for 3" schedule 40 PVC tubing. I increased this to 4" tubing. The larger your reserve tank is the less your system will kick in to revive itself. Yes it takes slightly longer take chare the system but if you increase your vacuum pump generator to a 9cfm you won't even notice.
    Which is exactly what I did.
    The base carrier has 2 interior wall supports providing an interior channel where the vacuum lines can be ran through the unit, instead of ontop of the unit for the appropriate connections therefore removing them from possible damage. In addition, by doing so it enables you to install a handle
    for carrying, which also prevents having to lift the unit by the tanks and possibly creating an eventual air leak in the system.
    The entire system ended up costing me approx. $350.00, which is pretty cheap for a system that can achieve 1800# of vacuum per ft.

    Vacuum Bag Secret
    Premade vacuum bags are outrageously expensive.
    I oupt to purchase a sheet of DuraMax vinyl and inquired as to if the product could be fused together by means of heat.
    The answer I got was, they had no idea.
    So, i put it to the test & came out w/ positive results.
    Take your sheeting & trim it so the sides & bottom are sqare & even.
    Next, run a length of blue painters tape approx. 1 1/2" from the outer edge where you are going to seal your bag.
    Take a clean rag which is almost soaking wet with Acetone and wipe the exposed egde which is to be sealed.
    NOTE: ONLY DO ONE SIDE AT A TIME.
    Remove the tape at this point and ever so carefully joint the edges together and press together w/ your fingers. Both edges have to be completely pressed together w/ no air bubbles or voids in between.
    Take 2 pieces of flat bar & sandwich / clamp the material between the bars w/ approx. 1/8" of sheeting protruding/exposed.
    Take a soldering torch & begin to run the flame over the exposed edge of the sheeting in full length strokes. You dont want the material to catch fire , only begin to melt together and create a fused seam.
    The ideal seam should be approx, 1/16" thick. Practice this metod w/ a scrap piece of material until you can create a proper seam.
    Let completely cool & remove bar clamps.
    Repeat this method for the bottom of the bag.

    After proceeding w/ this method on my bags I pulled a vacuum and once the system achieve adequate suction I left it attached for 1 hour.
    My vacuum system never turned back onto revive itself.
    No more having to wait 24 hrs for cement clue to cure.
    Instant vacuum bag. OLA
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Wonderful idea on the vac bag. I just made a new bag last week and while doing so i pondered how to seal it with heat. I couldnt come up with anything I thought would work so I used the vinyl cement. Thanks for the idea.

    Dave
    Mission Furniture- My mission is to build more furniture !

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Harrisburg, NC
    Posts
    2,255
    Nice tutorial, where did you purchase the vinyl?

    Richard

  4. #4
    Richard,
    I purchased the vinyl and supplies from VeneerSupplies.com.
    Check them out.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Rochester,NY
    Posts
    14
    Heating PVC/vinyl with an open flame produces Dioxin. Spend the money on the cement. Use it in a well ventilated area.

  6. #6

    Mike, POST THE FACTS

    Mike,
    Everybody has an opinion but if you are going to post facts then POST THE FACTS and post ALL the facts.
    Polychlorinated dibenzodioxins

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Jump to: navigation, search
    Polychlorinated dibenzodioxins (PCDDs), or simply dioxins, are a group of halogenatedorganic compounds which are significant because they act as environmental pollutants. They are commonly referred to as dioxins for simplicity in scientific publications because every PCDD molecule contains a dioxin skeletal structure. Typically, the p-dioxin skeleton is at the core of a PCDD molecule, giving the molecule a dibenzo-p-dioxin ring system. Members of the PCDD family have been shown to bioaccumulate in humans and wildlife due to their lipophilic properties, and are known teratogens, mutagens, and suspected human carcinogens.
    Dioxins occur as by-products in the manufacture of organochlorides, in the incineration of chlorine-containing substances such as PVC, in the bleaching of paper, and from natural sources such as volcanoes and forest fires.[1] There have been many incidents of dioxin pollution resulting from industrial emissions and accidents; the earliest such incidents were in the mid 18th century during the Industrial Revolution.[2]
    The word "dioxins" may also refer to a similar but unrelated compound, the polychlorinated dibenzofurans (PCDFs) of like environmental importance.
    Contents

    [hide]

    [edit] Chemical structure of dibenzo-p-dioxins



    The skeletal formula and substituent numbering scheme of the parent compound dibenzo-p-dioxin
    The structure of dibenzo-p-dioxin comprises two benzene rings joined by two oxygen bridges. This makes the compound an aromatic diether. The name dioxin formally refers to the central dioxygenated ring, which is stabilized by the two flanking benzene rings.
    In PCDDs, chlorine atoms are attached to this structure at any of 8 different places on the molecule, at positions 1-4 and 6-9. There are 75 different types of PCDD congeners (that is: related dioxin compounds). The toxicity of PCDDs depends on the number and positions of the chlorine atoms. Congeners that have chlorines in the 2, 3, 7, and 8 positions have been found to be significantly toxic. In fact, 7 congeners have chlorine atoms in the relevant positions which were considered toxic by the NATO Committee on the Challenges to Modern Society (NATO/CCMS) international toxic equivalent (I-TEQ) scheme.
    [edit] Historical perspective



    Structure of 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD)
    Concentrations of dioxins in nature prior to industrialization, due to natural combustion and geological processes, were generally about three times lower than today.[3][4] Dioxins were first unintentionally produced as by-products from 1848 onwards as Leblanc process plants started operating in Germany.[2] The first intentional synthesis of chlorinated dibenzodioxin was in 1872. Today, concentrations of dioxins are found in all humans, with higher levels commonly found in persons living in more industrialized countries. The most toxic dioxin, 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin (TCDD), became well known as a contaminant of Agent Orange, a herbicide used in the Vietnam War.[5] Later, dioxins were found in Times Beach, Missouri[6] and Love Canal, New York[7] and Seveso, Italy.[8] More recently, dioxins have been in the news with the poisoning of President Viktor Yushchenko of Ukraine in 2004 [9], and the Naples Mozzarella Crisis [10].
    [edit] Sources of dioxins

    The United States Environmental Protection AgencyDioxin Reassessment Report is possibly the most comprehensive review of dioxins, but other countries now have substantial research. Australia, New Zealand and the United Kingdom all have substantial research into body burdens and sources. Tolerable daily, monthly or annual intakes have been set by the World Health Organization and a number of governments. Dioxins enter the general population almost exclusively from ingestion of food, specifically through the consumption of fish, meat, and dairy products since dioxins are fat-soluble and readily climb the food chain [11].


    Concentration profile of PCDD in a dated sediment core from Esthwaite Water, Cumbria
    Occupational exposure is an issue for some in the chemical industry, or in the application of chemicals, notably herbicides. Inhalation has been a problem for people living near substantial point sources where emissions are not adequately controlled. In many developed nations there are now emissions regulations which have alleviated some concerns, although the lack of continuous sampling of dioxin emissions causes concern about the understatement of emissions. In Belgium, through the introduction of a process called AMESA, continuous sampling showed that periodic sampling understated emissions by a factor of 30 to 50 times. Few facilities have continuous sampling.
    Most controversial is the United States Environmental Protection Agency (US EPA) assessment's (draft) finding that any reference dose that were to be set would be far below current average intakes.
    Children are passed substantial body burdens by their mothers, and breastfeeding increases the child's body burden[citation needed]. Children's body burdens are often many times above the amount implied by tolerable intakes which are based on body weight. Breast fed children usually have substantially higher dioxin body burdens than non breast fed children until they are about 8 to 10 years old. The WHO still recommends breast feeding for its other benefits.
    Dioxins are produced in small concentrations when organic material is burned in the presence of chlorine, whether the chlorine is present as chlorideions or as organochlorine compounds, so they are widely produced in many contexts. According to the most recent US EPA data, the major sources of dioxins are:
    • Coal fired utilities
    • Municipal waste incinerators[1]
    • Metal smelting
    • Diesel trucks
    • Land application of sewage sludge
    • Burning treated wood
    • Trash burn barrels
    These sources together account for nearly 80% of dioxin emissions.
    When the original US EPA inventory of dioxin sources was done in 1987, incineration represented over 80% of known dioxin sources. As a result, US EPA implemented new emissions requirements. These regulations have been very successful in reducing dioxin stack emissions from incinerators. Incineration of municipal solid waste, medical waste, sewage sludge, and hazardous waste together now produce less than 3% of all dioxin emissions.
    In incineration, dioxins can also reform or form de novo in the atmosphere above the stack as the exhaust gases cool through a temperature window of 600 to 200 °C. The most common method of reducing the quantity of dioxins reforming or forming de novo is through rapid (30 millisecond) quenching of the exhaust gases through that 400 °C window [12]. Incinerator emissions of dioxins have been reduced by over 90% as a result of new emissions control requirements. Incineration in developed countries is now a very minor contributor to dioxin emissions.


    A chart illustrating how much dioxin the average American consumes per day. (Note: pg = picogram, or one trillionth of a gram, or 10−12 g) [11].
    Dioxins are also generated in reactions that do not involve burning — such as bleaching fibers for paper or textiles, and in the manufacture of chlorinated phenols, particularly when reaction temperature is not well controlled. Affected compounds include the wood preservative pentachlorophenol, and also herbicides such as 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (or 2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T). Higher levels of chlorination require higher reaction temperatures and greater dioxin production. See Agent Orange for more on contamination problems in the 1960s. Dioxins may also be formed during the photochemical breakdown of the common antimicrobial compound triclosan.[13]
    Dioxins are also in typical cigarette smoke[14]. Dioxin in cigarette smoke was noted as "understudied" by the US EPA in its "Re-Evaluating Dioxin" (1995). In that same document, the US EPA acknowledged that dioxin in cigarettes is "anthropogenic" (man-made, "not likely in nature"). Nevertheless, the use of chlorine-containing tobacco pesticides and chlorine-bleached cigarette papers remains legal[citation needed].
    Dioxins are present in minuscule amounts in a wide range of materials used by humans — including practically all substances manufactured using plastics, resins, or bleaches.[citation needed] Such materials include tampons, and a wide variety of food packaging substances[citation needed]. The use of these materials means that all Western humans receive at least a very small daily dose of dioxin[citation needed]—however, it is disputed whether such exceptionally tiny exposures have any clinical relevance[citation needed]. It is even controversially discussed whether dioxins might have a non-linear dose-response curve with beneficial health effects in a certain lower dose range, a phenomenon called hormesis[citation needed].
    Dietary sources of dioxin in the United States have been analyzed by the EPA and scientists from other organizations.


    Have a good day.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    It just so happens veneer supplies is having a 10% off everything sale tomorrow. Great timing for those of you that need a vac press. Thanks for the article too.
    What you listen to is your business....what you hear is ours.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    7,149
    Gotta be honest, I found Mike's version easier to read. I'm not in a hurry to fill my basement shop with dioxins, so I'm pretty much gonna stay away from doing any of these things in my shop:

    A) Operate a coal fired power plant.

    B) Operate a metal smelter.

    C) Construct a paper bleaching factory.

    D) Install a municipal wast incinerator.

    E) Drive a diesel truck.

    F) Burn a trash barrel, particularly filled with treated wood.

    G) Melt vinyl or Polyurethane bags (or any thing 'plasticey' really)

    The first six should be easy to avoid.

  9. #9
    I guess some things are better left to the pro's.
    Oh, by the way, you had better stop smoking, and doing anything else that might cause you to die from dioxions.
    #1 Rule: Safety
    #2 Rule: Don't allow idiots around machinery, flammables or firearms.

  10. #10
    Hi
    Where did you get plans for this system? It looks very good, I like the
    reserve tank idea, I've just hooked the pump up right to the bag. So
    those grey tanks are the reserve and are pvc pipe?
    Thanks-Rob

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Hi Rob. Check out www.veneersupplies.com Joe is the best resource for this type of info.
    What you listen to is your business....what you hear is ours.

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