Finish MDO to accept vinyl lettering & logo

[Joe Stoutenburgh]

I was asked by my local brew-pub to make an exterior sign for their patio. Not having a CNC router, and no lettering skills, I'm planning on attaching commercial laser cut vinyl lettering to painted MDO.

Question 1: What's the best paint to use under the vinly. Some web sites say you must use only specialty sign enamel. Others say that acrylic semigloss house paint is fine. I'm predisposed to the acrylic because I need to color match colors on the building and their logo, and I think I can do this readily at Lowes or Home Depot with the acrylic.

Question 2: Should any sort of clearcoat go over the vinyl or just let it be?

Thanks for your help.

[Joe Pelonio]

Sign enamel like 1-shot is best and will last the longest, but for white I have had great luck with Rustoleum oil based, sprayed or rolled with foam roller. I have also done many MDO signs with exterior latex. It will last as long as the quality of the paint, so don't use the cheap stuff. Use semi gloss or gloss, not flat, satin, or eggshell, the glossier the better for vinyl lettering adhesion and dirt not sticking as much.

I buy the MDO preprimed both sides at the sign supply, if you get it unprimed then do use a good primer on it. The edges need to have any voids filled, then sand, prime and paint. I use a paintable exterior wood dough.

Vinyl lettering does not need any top coat, in fact many clears will attack it and cause the vinyl to lift off or wrinkle. Make sure to use premium 2 mil cast vinyl, and it will last 8-10 years.

[Doug Bergstrom]

We have stopped producing any signs made from wood, MDO or alike because of the upkeep and they do not hold up to the weather, at least here in the north. We use either PVC such as Komotex and Sintra, or a aluminum / plastic sheet like Diebond and Alumalite. With the PVC you need to use a vinyl primer first than you can paint with whatever paint you choose. Like MDO, the paint on the sign will only last as long as the the quality of the paint you purchase but you the board will never rot or warp because of a lack of paint protection.

[Joe Pelonio]

We have stopped producing any signs made from wood, MDO or alike because of the upkeep and they do not hold up to the weather, at least here in the north. We use either PVC such as Komotex and Sintra, or a aluminum / plastic sheet like Diebond and Alumalite. With the PVC you need to use a vinyl primer first than you can paint with whatever paint you choose. Like MDO, the paint on the sign will only last as long as the the quality of the paint you purchase but you the board will never rot or warp because of a lack of paint protection.

Pretty much the same her, but surprisingly many people still insist on MDO, especially for large real estate signs.

[Scott Shepherd]

I can't speak from an experienced point of view, Doug and Joe can do that, but from someone in your same shoes not long ago, I can relate my experiences.

I read and read and read and everyone said "Use Porter Paint". Not sure why, but a lot of sign people swear by Porter. I had a special Pantone color as well. Went to Porter, got the two colors I needed, came back, painted it (in a climate controlled environment), and read the can. It was something along the lines of recoat 16-24 hours. First time I didn't follow those directions and I couldn't get the paint to ever set up. It remained somewhat tacky for days. Next time I followed the directions to the letter. That means it took 5 days to paint the sign base color. It was a color that required 5 coats to get it to the proper Pantone color. So 5 days to paint that one color. So much for knocking the job out quickly.

I've tried Duron and Porter paints and I've found that you have to follow the recoat directions to the letter or it will remain sticky. You also have to be very careful when you are laying the vinyl. If your squeegee happens to drift off the transfer tape, it will leave a mark, a permanent mark. You can't touch it back up on some Pantone colors because every coat changes the shade of the color.

Also, just because they mix it to match a Pantone color, doesn't mean anything. You'll need a Pantone chart so you can make sure the tint is right as you paint it. As I just mentioned, every coat, on some colors, changes the tint and you'll have to put the right number of coats on to match the Pantone color. Might be 1 coat, might be 6 coats.

In the few I have done, I've also tried to move to Dibond. So much easy to handle and install.

Hope that helps you in some small way.

[Doug Bergstrom]

joe
For real estate signs you should check out scooter board. From there website:

Scooter Board is our newest product for real estate signs. It is moisture resistant and weighs 1/3 less than high-density hardboards such as Duron. It has a brilliant white finish that is stain resistant and tougher than roller-coated applied paints. It's 3/16" core is perfect for real estate sign frames.

We have even lasered this stuff and it worked great.

[Joe Stoutenburgh]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. Just to narrow the scope a bit, this sign will by 25 x 16, and probably be brought in when the establishment closes each night to prevent theft / damage, and will go to indoor storage over winter.

I have not explored PVC products like Komotex and Sintra. So a few questions..

1) Can I work this material with standard wood working tools like table saw, band saw, router, etc. If so then its worth exploring. If not, then I'm not willing to invest big $$ because this is not a commercial venture.

2) Where can this material be purchased in the Minneapolis Area in single sheets? Looking at an on-line source I'm seeing Sintra 20" x 30" inch sheets of 13mm thick material at for 5 sheets for $200 ($40/sheet) and I only need 2 sheets. In contrast I can get 4' x 8' 1/2 inch MDO for $30. So, if I were to use that Sintra I'n need to be able to buy single sheets.

3) I go with with the PVC material I'm back to scuare one on the finishing question - what's the best pain to use on this product?

Thanks again.

[Scott Shepherd]

Yes Joe, you can cut those with standard woodworking tools.

Best I can offer is Piedmont Plastics here :

375 W South Frontage Road
Suite C
Bolingbrook, IL 60440
Toll Free: 866-711-9966
Phone: 630-378-9966
Fax: 630-378-9977

A lot of time they have drops or partial sheets and I believe they will sell you anything, any quantity. The local one here cuts to size, so you can even order it and have it all sawed to size for you.

I can't answer the vest paint for PVC question. I'd contact someone like Porter Paints, Duron, or someone like that and let them recommend the right paint.

[Joe Pelonio]

All of the local sign supplies sell it by the sheet, and several plastic suppliers will cut to size. Is this Laird Plastics near you?
Minneapolis

1957 GATEWAY BLVD


ARDEN HILLS, MN 55112

As for paint, I have used just about any latex if I prime it first with automotive primer. Also, Krylon Fusion sticks, as does regular Krylon.

I should mention it's a foam, so the edges are a little harder to finish, especially thicker ones like 13mm. It's not dense so will take several coats to make smooth.

[Doug Bergstrom]

We use a plastic primer from Sherwin Williams that works very well. From there you can use any exterior Latex or enamel paints.

[Brent Vander Weil]

Alumalite is the thing I have been selling most to real estate and most other customers looking for a sign that is going outdoor for long term. two sheets of aluminum with a corregated plastic core. Plastic does not deteriorate and the aluminum won't rust... comes in alot of basic colors too... comes in a couple of thickness choices and the only special tool is an aluminum blade for circular or panel saw... by the time you buy MDO cut and prep it and the time involved... alumilite might be a competitive alternative.