Steel City Cabinet Saw Disappointment

[Andy Sipila]

After a lot of searching for a used Powermatic 66, I finally decided I couldn't wait anymore and bought a new Steel City 35630. This is their standard cabinet saw with the titanium-nitride coated top. The saw arrived well packed and seemed in good condition. Upon unpacking I found that one of the extension wings had two pretty big gouges in it well through the coating and into the casting and the mounting tabs on one of the support legs for the extension table was badly bent. As I mentioned the packaging was in good condition so I believe the saw was shipped with these defects.

After a call to Steel City's parts department they said they would promptly ship me replacement parts. Their customer service was very good. All they requested was that I e-mail them pictures of the damaged parts. If these were the only problems, I would be satisfied with the product I purchased.

I was too impatient to wait for the replacement parts so I decided I would assemble the saw with the bad wing and replace it when the new one arrived. During assembly and set-up I found that the miter slots on the table were about .017 out of parallel. Then I plugged the saw in and was rewarded with a motor that barely turned and then promptly tripped the 20 amp breaker in my panel. Steel City's parts department is closed for the evening so I will have to contact about these newest problems tomorrow.

I'm just a little disappointed in the overall quality of this product and wonder what further gremlins await me. However, with as good as customer service has been so far I'm sure I will be taken care of.

Anyone else have this sort of experience with Steel City?

[David DeCristoforo]

I don't think there is a company in the world with whom someone somewhere has not had a similar experience. It bites when you are the one who gets the "lemon" but this is a reputable company and I'm sure they will make it right. As to your electrical issue, are you sure you have the motor and circuit hooked up correctly? Both 220?

[Sean Kinn]

Seems like this is becoming more common with a lot of the manufacturers lately....more items slipping through QC at the factory that should have never been packaged up for shipment. Steel City will take care of you no doubt...still a bummer when this happens though.

I don't want to name the company, but I received a machine that should have never left the factory due to a laundry list of issues. In the end, the company more than took care of me, but it sure was a bummer after saving up my $$ and waiting for it to arrive.

[Tom Veatch]

... Then I plugged the saw in and was rewarded with a motor that barely turned and then promptly tripped the 20 amp breaker in my panel. ...

I've had items arrive with dead start capacitors more than once. If the motor/arbor turns easily by hand, and you're absolutely sure the power supply is the correct voltage (220, I presume), a new start cap is usually a lot less difficult to replace than the entire motor - assuming they don't ship you a whole new saw.

[Andy Sipila]

The motor turns over easily by hand and the voltage is correct. I checked it with a meter and plugged my planer into the same outlet to be sure.

Should I be concerned about the miter slots being .017" out of parallel or is that normal?

Thanks for the quick responses.

[David DeCristoforo]

"Should I be concerned about the miter slots being .017" out of parallel or is that normal?"

I always tell people not to "split hairs" when it comes to this stuff but I usually draw the line at around .015 which is right close to 1/64th of an inch. After that it can become an issue. So I would think that you have a legitimate concern. I would say that with all of the other issues, ("badly bent", "gouged", "won't run") you would be perfectly within your rights to ask for another machine. That's all a bit much to accept on a brand new "top quality" (and not cheap) machine.

[Mike Goetzke]

Andy - The problems you have uncovered so far are beyond cosmetic. I think you should have the saw returned for a replacement or refund. From your comments with all the problems you have found even if you get replacement parts it's always going to worry you "what's next." I know I'd be pretty upset right now if I were you.

Mike

[Chris Barnett]

Nothing was wrong with the money you paid for it! Get a new saw or ask for a return authorization and go Griz (they have steel motor covers, not plastic). Mine was perfect.

[glenn bradley]

Definitely not what I am used to hearing folks say about their SCTW machines. I had to swap a cast iron part three times before I was satisfied on one purchase. The manufacturer was all over the problem and emailed and called repeatedly to be sure things got taken care of. It took a little time on my part but they compensated me financially and I am completely satisfied. I probably would be just as satisfied without the price adjustment but it was a nice gesture.

With the list of issues and the variety, I would sleep better with a whole new machine. Someone in QA was on break when that one went by. I would just never feel right about it. YMMV.

[Eric Mims]

I have a similar Steel City saw that I got cheap (freight damaged, name plate had been knocked off...) Saw is perfect.. wings needed adjustment and top needed adjustment to be parallel to slots, but once I had it set up it was perfect. I really like it.

[Tom Veatch]

The motor turns over easily by hand and the voltage is correct. I checked it with a meter and plugged my planer into the same outlet to be sure.

I'm probably sensitized to the start cap situation, having had to deal with three of them in three different machines in the last 6 months, but that would be my "go-to" solution for the starting problem.

Should I be concerned about the miter slots being .017" out of parallel or is that normal?

Can't say whether or not it's normal. I've never checked mine. You didn't say, but I'm assuming that measurement is a Total Indicator Reading (TIR) from one end of the slot(s) to the other. If the slots are in the neighborhood of 26-28" long, which is pretty standard, then that's about .008 per foot which doesn't sound quite as bad. I suspect that after your blade/arbor/fence is aligned with whichever slot you'll be using the most, you won't notice the difference as long as you're only using one of the slots at a time.

But, and it's a pretty big one, if you ever decide to build a dual runner sled, you could have a binding problem that's hard to fix without a very sloppy fit of the runners in the miter slots.

All told, I agree with David and the other responders. You've reported sufficient damage and other discrepancies with the saw that I doubt you'll ever be really happy either with it or with the amount of time and labor you'll have to invest to bring it up to the standards it should have had when it was unloaded from the truck. In your place, I'd be lobbying for a complete replacement and return of the pile of scrap iron that was shipped to you.

[Bob DeWolfe]

I have just taken delivery of a SCTW saw as well. Everything seemed fine when the saw was uncrated but the main table and one wing looked and felt as they had not been ground/polished after the machining. A call and email were answered the next day and a tech came out Wednesday of last week to replace both. The wing he brought was not flat (dipped 15 thou in the middle). He explained that 6 thou was acceptable and he left and brought another back on Friday and completed the reassembly.

I found that the customer service was very good at working with me to set this saw right. Count me a pleased customer.

Having worked in China for a tool manufacturer I can assure you that quality control is good with most North American companies but not every unit can or does get inspected.

I believe Steel City will do everthing possible to correct the problems.

[Mike Gabbay]

Not to rub salt into the wounds... this is why I bought a General. They are one of the few manufacturers that really check out their equipment before it ships.

If you are getting tools that are obviously not inspected then I would say the QC process that the manufacturer is using has failed. Why would we spend thousands on something and expect that customer service and a rebuilding process is in order to get what we paid for? If you bought a $2,000 flat screen TV and it did not work would you try and rebuild it or have the manufacturer/retailer replace it? If it happened more than once would you stay with the manufacturer or buy something else?

I'd return the saw and get a General, PM, or Jet. You don't hear as many issues with these saws.

My grumpy 2 cents!

[Sean Kinn]

Having worked in China for a tool manufacturer I can assure you that quality control is good with most North American companies but not every unit can or does get inspected.

I'm not arguing with you (since you've been there), but I would like to offer a different opinion. I also perform QA/QC functions for my job, so I know that occasionally things do slip through. However, (in my field at least) the stuff that slips through is usually something "buried" 12 levels deep that a simple spot check would not have caught. I think the QC at a lot of these plants could use some improvement.

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. I really have a hard time believing the QC was "good" when folks are opening undamaged crates/boxes only to find severly scratched/dented/broken/mis-aligned tables/cabinets/components, partially painted components, holes that were never tapped, sharp edges that were never filed down, etc.

These manufacturers should at least be doing a quick visual of each and every unit right at the final moment before it is crated/boxed. Afterall, all we hear about is how cheap labor is in China right? I can't imagine adding an inspector to the line would add more than a few $$ per unit to the cost (if even that much). I understand they might not pull every single $250 mortiser or $350 drill press for a full inspection/load test, but come on. Like many others here I think it is really coming down to the $$ driving the manufacturers to cut back on QC to meet a given price point. Afterall, QC is usualy one of the first things that a lot of places will cut funding on when the budget is tight.

Anyway, I'm not knocking SC here...they are some great folks. I just know that I'd be more than happy to cough up another $5 or so for a machine (from any brand) to know for sure that someone gave it a reasonable inspection before it was packaged up for shipment.

[Joe Jensen]

I'm not arguing with you (since you've been there), but I would like to offer a different opinion. I also perform QA/QC functions for my job, so I know that occasionally things do slip through. However, (in my field at least) the stuff that slips through is usually something "buried" 12 levels deep that a simple spot check would not have caught. I think the QC at a lot of these plants could use some improvement.

It seems like a lot of the stuff we are starting to see [from many of the brands sold in the US] is gross stuff that was clearly not checked at the factory...or clearly ignored. I really have a hard time believing the QC was "good" when folks are opening undamaged crates/boxes only to find severly scratched/dented/broken/mis-aligned tables/cabinets/components, partially painted components, holes that were never tapped, sharp edges that were never filed down, etc.

These manufacturers should at least be doing a quick visual of each and every unit right at the final moment before it is crated/boxed. Afterall, all we hear about is how cheap labor is in China right? I can't imagine adding an inspector to the line would add more than a few $$ per unit to the cost (if even that much). I understand they might not pull every single $250 mortiser or $350 drill press for a full inspection/load test, but come on. Like many others here I think it is really coming down to the $$ driving the manufacturers to cut back on QC to meet a given price point. Afterall, QC is usualy one of the first things that a lot of places will cut funding on when the budget is tight.

Anyway, I'm not knocking SC here...they are some great folks. I just know that I'd be more than happy to cough up another $5 or so for a machine (from any brand) to know for sure that someone gave it a reasonable inspection before it was packaged up for shipment.

I think the Branded supplier gets what they pay for. If SC wanted 100% inspection, they could get that. Too many Branded suppliers go offshore and look mostly at price, or they go with the same sampling plan they used here. There are many examples of companies in emerging economies cutting corners everywhere to win on price. In my professional life I am constantly amazed at the low margins manufacturers will accept in China. Distributors of electrical components in China routinely take 1% markup, where their American and European competitors walk from less than 8%. As a result, there is a culture where if the branded company doesn't specify, and inspect, every detail, then the Chinese company will cut a corner there. I go to China several times a year, and there are factories manufacturing motherboards there that are state of the art in the world. With the right specs and rigorous testing, one can get absolutely great quality product. This is however more expensive that the typical output from China. I also believe that one factory in China will supply the exact same machine in different colors to different customers. But, they will supply them to different levels of outgoing inspection and different levels of precision. Take a table saw for example. There are many aspects of the trunion that depend on tight tolerances in machining to get consistent blade to table parallelism no matter what blade height or angle. Errors for this are compensated for with shims between the cabinet and the table, but these shims only split the errors so it's 1/2 one way and the 1/2 the other. Now back to the manufacturing line. They make table saws for 10 companies, all on the same line. One company has tight specs, and they want 100% tested. 100% of theirs will meet the tight specs. The ones that fail the tight specs will get used in the other 9 companies machines. Same manufacturing line, but different quality levels. Now, the same applies to bearings, electrical components, motors, etc. In china you can clearly get different grades of motor that would all look identical. Heck, China can make clones of anything that look idential to the original, they can easily do different grades of motors. Look at the rash of bad start capacitors lately on this forum for a number of machines. Do you think that all capacitors are created equal? Here is another example. Years ago my kids had those small keychain size electronic pets. The toys took 3 watch batteries. The toy only cost $5, but within a month, the batteries died. Replacement batteries in local stores were $5-10ea. I was complaining to a seat mate on a flight, and he laughed and said that his company qas buying 55 gallon barrels of watch batteries in China (untested) for $50. He said they look identical to standard watch batteries, and most work for a while, but none work for a long time.

Moral, if you don't rigorously spec quality and materials, and test them at a very high sampling rate, quality will be low. Basically, you get what you pay for.