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Thread: Problem(s) with my brand new router table; advice, suggestions appreciated

  1. #1

    Problem(s) with my brand new router table; advice, suggestions appreciated

    Hi,

    I have a problem with my new router table and thought I could get some advice - opinions. I mounted a porter cable 7518 router on it, using a Woodpeck router lift. The table top is either MDF or HDF with some kind of Formica as a surface. It has an extruded aluminum angle bracket which mounts to the table top, onto which mounts the two separate aluminum backed fence pieces. The fence has plastic on the front, which I guide the stock along.

    The problem is, I can not get the fence squared up. So I removed the fence assembly from table, removed the fence pieces from the extruded aluminum angle mounting bracket to check it out. I put a square on the outside 90 degree bend of the bracket using my Starrett Precision Combination Square - accurate to .00001”. Down the length of the bracket, the 90 degree bend in the bracket is out of square. I measured the gap in a few places by placing a shim in the gap between the bracket and the square, and saw approximately a .015 inch gap (about one 1/64th of an inch) down most of the length of the bracket.

    What I’d like to know is, is this normal for this kind of a router table? If it is, what would you experienced woodworkers do – just shim it out somehow to make it square? Or should I contact the manufacturer to see if they can repair or replace the fence assembly? What’s normal for a router table fence – is .015 out of square common? Or should it be within .002 or .005, something like that?

    My stock is wobbly against the fence when I run it across the bit, and my tongue and groove joints I am trying to make with the Frued 99-036 tongue and groove router bit kit to make my kitchen cabinets are not square. Sometimes the stock get’s stuck in the router bit and I have to shut the router off quick.

    Another problem is that the two fence pieces when attached to the angle bracket and butted up against each other are not flush – this is right where I come to the fence gap when I have the router bit at the gap either between the two fence pieces when I gap the fence, or when the
    fence pieces are butted to gether. So when I run stock across one side of the fence, it catches on the other fence and won’t go across the fence unless I wiggle the stock a bit while milling. Also, when I look at the back of the fence-bracket assembly, I can see a gap between the back of one of the fences and the bracket in the area close to where the bit gap is – the bolts are not puling the fence flush against the bracket. Either the two fence sections are not the same thickness, or the bracket is causing them not to be flush. Maybe both. When I run a piece of stock across the fence, it sometimes gets caught on the high end of the other fence piece, and sometimes my stock dangerously shoots out fast off the router table. Again, is this normal for a router table and would you guys just shim this out? Or should I ask for a new fence?

    The third problem which I am not sure is a problem, after checking the table top with a straightedge, the center of the table dips down about .022 inches. The person at the manufacturer told me today that this is normal – that all router tables are made that way, and that this is the way it’s supposed to be. Is this true? I’m just concerned that if I place a new fence on the table, will it cause problems with the new fence or bend it? I have the Porter Cable 7518 – could the router cause the center of the table to sag?

    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    On your third point, a properly supported surface is not going to sag under the weight of the router. It might be helpful if you post the make and model of the router top you bought so folks with experience can comment more specifically.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    It’s the Supreme Router Table package, which I purchased at the Detroit woodworking show in Novi, MI from Peachtree Woodworking.

    I don't have a photograph of it yet, but I did find via search the exact same model I own in another post - there is a photo of the table in the post...

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=16151

    Last edited by Daniel Hillmer; 05-21-2008 at 4:52 PM.

  4. #4
    If it were me I would want the table top replaced, because when running stock through by hand their will be slight differences in the pressure applied. With that sag in the table it will wind up giving you inconsistent results and put you in the looney bin . JMHO
    I know it was here a minute ago ???

  5. #5
    The out of square fence is un-exceptable in my book...
    aka rarebear - Hand Planes 101 - RexMill - The Resource

  6. #6
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    I think I would not use the RT till you have your issues solved. If you have to turn the power off in the middle of a cut something is seriously wrong.

    You should shim the two fences to be almost perfectly perpendicular to the table. You should also align the two fence halves so that the are in straight alignment with each other.


    Mike

  7. #7
    The way she explained it to me on the phone, was that router tables are supposed to be dipped in the middle like mine, because the Rousseu plate and many other router plates are domed and that there is supposed to be a dip in the table to accommodate the domed router plate.

    I should say that the table came with the Rousseau plate, but I purchased separately from Woodpeckers and installed the woodpecker router lift instead and did not use the Rousseau. I did call them before I did it because I had to slightly modify the flange – lip where the Woodpecker lift rests on, and shave off a bit of wood so that the woodpecker would fit flush to the table (it’s thicker than the Rousseau plate). They said this was ok, that lots of folks install lifts in their tables.

  8. #8
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    Doesn't sound right to me. When I tighten down the knobs on my Jessum fence its perpendicular to the table and runs in a straight line along its length. My fence is an anodized aluminum angle design with aluminum face plates to which I mount a variety of shop made mdf face plates. I have checked the table flatness and fence with a 36" machinists straight edge accurate to within .003" over its length, and you can barely slip a .002" or .003" feeler gauge anywhere over 30". I have checked the perpendicular relationship of the fence and table with a precise machinist square and its nearly perfect at any point over its length. I have made my own fences that usually require a shim here or a tweak there, but I think the whole point of buying a good fence made in a machine shop is to avoid that hassle.

    That whole bit about the plates with a crown and tables with dips sounds like whooy! Sounds more like the construction details for the floor at the carnival fun house than a good idea for a precision wood working station. What you need is a flat rigid plate hanging from a flat rigid table top. I'd guess the wood pecker's lift plate is flat and rigid based on the items I have bought from them being precise and built like tanks.

    Relative to wood catching on the leading edge of the out feed fence it doesn't take much variation in either fence alignment or stock flatness to snag the leading edge of the stock and cause chatter or create feeding problems. For split fence set ups on the router or shaper I typically put a slight chamfer or radius on the out feed fences leading edge to eliminate any problems with minor misalignment. This wont solve gross issues with fence flatness but it will stop minor alignment issues from becoming a problem while spinning a live cutter and feeding stock.

  9. #9
    Yes the more I use and look at this table, the more disappointed I am with it and am beginning to think I got ripped off. Because all along, I thought I was doing something wrong when feeding stock into the bit, because about every other part either get’s shot off the top of the table like a rocket, or it get's jammed between the bit and the fence. Now I find I’m doing everything right and I got a lemon. When she told me that the dip in the table is supposed to be there, her explanation did not sound right to me either, but I thought I should first give her the benefit of the doubt and check here first, to make sure I was not missing something.

    I paid them $380.00 for this router table, and for that much money, for just an MDF - Formica tabletop with an extruded aluminum (not machined) fence, I thought they would at least inspect these items for squareness before selling them. I mean it’s not like this is a cast iron table – it’s MDF and aluminum, and the material cost is obviously low compared to a steel table, there is so much profit in it, so the least they could include is some decent inspection.

    I know my stock is square, because I have a Grizzly 8 inch jointer and I can get my rails and stiles almost perfectly square according to my Starrett – very happy with the Grizzly tools that’s for sure. My Woodpeckers router lift plate is perfectly flat by the way – I just checked that.

    By the way, do you think $380.00 is excessive for an MDF router table? Did I get hornswoggled here? Or is this about the going rate these days for an MDF router table?

  10. #10
    I second all the above opinions. Stock wobbling and hanging up on the fence signs of potentially serious trouble.

    The reason the router plates are slightly domed is that a slight dome is better than a slight sag. Router tables do NOT sag to compensate for a domed router plate. And the amounts we are talking about are less than .005". You should get a new table (or make your own)...

    ... Unless you can shim things to level the table and to square the fence. (Seems like you shouldn't have to do this though.) I used teflon tape under my router fence to square it to the table top. (Link to Shop page - scroll down to Router Table.)

    MDF covered with a laminate is fine for a router table top (if it's thick enough) but it should be flat. If your stock wobbles when sliding along the fence, are your fence faces flat and aligned with each other?

  11. #11
    The table itself is 1.5 inches thick and the lip which is the inset for the lift is an inch thick - is that thick enough to prevent warpage, or should they have made it thicker?

    No, the fences do not line up as described in original post above. I did not check the fence faces flatness, but thought the point is moot since it’s impossible to get them lined up unless I put somewhere between a .010 to .020 shim on the back of one fence piece. I feel I should not have to be shimming out a newly purchased $380.00 table - it’s not right.

    I since have spoken with the retailer, they said to go ahead and ship the fence and the out-of-square fence angle mounting bracket back and they will probably replace it. I just now shipped them back.

    What I’m more worried about, is that they say it’s OK if the table dips .022 inches in center and that once I get a new fence all will be well. Does this sound like a reasonable offer? Or do you think I should ship them the table top back to them as well? I'm thinking if I have a new square fence, what good is it on a warped table? I'm afraid the new fence will get bent over time if it's bolted to the top of a warped table.
    Last edited by Daniel Hillmer; 05-21-2008 at 7:59 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Hillmer View Post
    The way she explained it to me on the phone, was that router tables are supposed to be dipped in the middle like mine, because the Rousseu plate and many other router plates are domed and that there is supposed to be a dip in the table to accommodate the domed router plate.
    Not! JMHO but it really bugs me when this whole "dips and domes . . oh, its supposed to be that way" fairytale gets used. The distance from the router cutting edge must be constant in height and depth to supply a proper cut. Meandering past the bit over hills and dales will not work out.

    Of the tables in this price range, Eagle America, MLCS, Peachtree, Rockler, etc., I ended up with Rockler. These are inexpensive tables so they will not be fabulous but they can be solid dependable workers. The Rockler has been abused for 3 years and seems as good as day one; fence 90 to the table, fence faces even depth, table flat (after some reinforcement underneath), and so on. If Peachtree can't make you happy, return it. I wouldn't want to spend hours and hours of my time trying to make a $200 table, fence and plate do what it should and I don't even do this for a living.

    Oh . . . rant over. I hope they do right by you and that dips and domes story is bunk!
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Bratt View Post
    (Link to Shop page - scroll down to Router Table.)
    Pasted from your page: Paraphrase - Clamping a stop block in each slot allows me to easily set a reference position for the fence.

    What a cool idea. I can't belive I have used my slotted table for three years and never thought of that. Excellent tip!
    "A hen is only an egg's way of making another egg".


    – Samuel Butler

  14. #14
    Your problems normal?
    In my view: Within normal limits.
    Unacceptable? Yes.

    The place to discover this is at the point of purchase. A pity, but not strange at all.

  15. #15
    As far as properly supporting the middle of the table or adding re enforcement is concerned, I don’t think that’s possible with the stand that came with the table, unless I either build myself a new stand or buy a heavier duty stand.

    Because the stand that came with the table – the legs are made of 3/64” 90 degree angle metal (which I think is about 18 gauge) and the table top sits on and is supported on all four sides but not in the center. The only way I see I can add a couple of more supports is to go out and buy some more angle metal, start drilling holes in the table supports to bolt the new metal to, then add shims between table and new metal to bring the table level. In time I would not be surprised that this would cause the frame to start buckling because the metal does not seem to be thick enough to take on the added pressure of the shims. One would think that if the table needed support they would have added extra metal.

    I guess I’m going to have to call them again tomorrow and see if they will help me with getting a new (flat) table. I hope I’m not going to take a bath on this, with shipping I now have over $400.00 into this table and have no functional table.

    I’m really bummed too because I have 35 board feet of maple and am ready and eager to start building kitchen cabinets, planned on doing a lot of work over the holiday weekend, and now I’m going to have to tell the lady who has been waiting for a new kitchen for months – honey, there will be another week or two delay…

    Oh boy that sure will go over good with her, maybe I’ll have to take her out to dinner to soften the blow.

    Just curious - does Peachtree make their own router tables? If not, does anyone know who makes them?
    Last edited by Daniel Hillmer; 05-21-2008 at 9:47 PM.

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