Kitchen cabinet installation question

[Rob Blaustein]

I'm installing some base cabinets in a kitchen and have a few questions. The cabinets are the kind where the sides go down to the floor and are notched to accept a toekick. So they don't sit on a base, and the bottom shelf is around 3 1/2 inches from the floor. The cabinet that is at the left end of the run is only 12" wide (all are 24" deep) and immediately to its right is a dishwasher. I can hit one stud in the back so will throw some screws in there (the back is 5/8" thick). But there is nothing to attach the cabinet to on either side and I'm concerned that those screws in the back won't be enough to keep it in place and prevent it from rotating a bit. The only thing I can think of is putting some pocket hole screws on the right side at the bottom and screwing it down to the floor. It won't be visible since it will be covered by the dishwasher. Is that what people would do? Any other suggestions? In general, when installing these types of cabinets, do people attach them to the floor or only to the back wall?
--Rob

[tom holton]

My guys in the field will sometimes toe-screw into the subfloor thru the front of the toekick to keep it from twisting. This will be covered with your toekick mouldings, so no big deal. Once the countertops are in place, it wont budge.

TOm

[David DeCristoforo]

http://www.ameribestfasteners.com/SPRING.gif

[Jim Becker]

You could also use wall anchors if you feel you need additional support for that solitary cabinet. To make it simple you can drill a hole in the "nailer" that is biger than your anchor, put it in the wall and then use a fender washer to hold the cabinet securely to the wall with the screw. This is fine for base cabinets since they have a lot of other support.

I have a "single" like that to the left of the range. Fortunately, I was able to hit more than one stud, but would have used the above technique if necessary.

[Dave Sabo]

What's to the left of the cabinet at "the left end of the run" ?

[Dave Sabo]

Where is the stud behind the 12" cab? Left, center , right? What brand of dishwasher are you using? How deep is it? Why not switch the DW position?

[Joe Mioux]

You could also use wall anchors if you feel you need additional support for that solitary cabinet. To make it simple you can drill a hole in the "nailer" that is biger than your anchor, put it in the wall and then use a fender washer to hold the cabinet securely to the wall with the screw. This is fine for base cabinets since they have a lot of other support.

I have a "single" like that to the left of the range. Fortunately, I was able to hit more than one stud, but would have used the above technique if necessary.

HA!

Even though you photoshopped your AV, we know you are still wearing a tie!

[Paul Girouard]

Set the cabinet on the floor exactly where it is to be set , mark a line across the front of the toe kick , remove cabinet , deduct the thickness of the toe kick front , screw down a 2x4 block to the floor ( UNLESS YOU HAVE RADIENT IN FLOOR HEAT) . Then place cabinet back in place , screw to wall thru the back / screw cleat into that one stud. Screw thru front of toe kick into your backing / 2x4.

You could mark the side of the toe kick as well and cut the block exactly to width , but the screw you put thru the T/S ( Toe Space) front will hold it just as well , with the added strength the sub top will provide.

BTW is that REALLY Jim Becker? Or another snagged off the net avatar? His last one sure looked like Johnny Carson to me, although it could be Mister Becker in both photos

[Jim O'Dell]

Paul beat me to it. I'd use a combination of what has been said, but I'd use a 2X4 block behind the toe kick to secure the bottom. Jim.

[Matt Ocel]

Rob -

What Tom Said and/or what Paul said will work just fine.

[Rob Blaustein]

There is no toekick there yet, I was planning to install it later. So there's nothing to screw into, there's just space under the bottom shelf. Sounds like wall anchors or my pocket screw idea might be the best bets.

Dave-just to the left of that cab is a few inches of space, and then a door, but I can't hit the stud that frames the door. The stud I can hit is to the right of center, closer to the right end of the cab. I think it would be awkward putting the dishwasher there and its placement has already generated considerable discussion since it is separated from the sink cab by another cabinet (meaning we will have to run the plumbing through that intervening cabinet). But my wife insisted, so it's staying there.

Paul's idea is interesting--something my wife actually suggested but we thought pocket screws through the side wall would be easier. But it raises another question: I've built a few bases for cabinets in the past and I've always used plywood rather than 2x4s because of the issue of dimensional stability and moisture changes. Is it ok to use 2x4s on edge as a base? My sense was that you could have appreciable changes in width with swings in humidity (up to 1/16th to an 1/8th of an inch) and that movement could have bad effects on a stone countertop that is caulked to the back wall.

[Paul Girouard]

So there's no toe space FRONT ? You said the side go to the floor , GENERALLY there is at least a flimsy front piece??

The 2x4 will be fine , how wet is this piece going to get on the floor behind the base , or what ever you finish that T/S with?

You could rip it down a 1/8" thinner than the toe space height.

But My idea was block on the floor behind the EXISTING T/S front and cut short of either end. But still even if you cut it tight it should never get wet enough to become a issue.

Can you post a photo of this cabinet ? There has to be some clearer way to explain what you want to do.

IF there is no front on ANY of these cabinet you maybe should be installing something , what did they provide some 1/4 " or thinner door skin to finish the T/S fronts with?

[Paul Girouard]

And yes normally toe spaces are made of plywood 3/4" a LOT of architects draw 2x4 T/S in details , BUT few IF any ( none I've worked with) really expect a cabinet shop to use 2x4's front ,back and stretcher cleats , in the construction of there T/S's.


I was talking about one block as a screw cleat to ENTIRE T/S's built out of 2x4's.

[Rob Blaustein]

Paul-these are cabinets that we are re-cycyling from a friend's kitchen renovation--they are only a few years old and are in good shape. Several of the toe kicks were removed when their contractor removed the cabs. My plan is to rip some 3/4 ply, paint to match and install later.

For toe kicks on cabinets like these--do people generally put one on each cab, or put one long continuous piece spanning a run of cabinets?

Sorry for lack of photos--I'm not at the place we're doing this right now but will be back this weekend and will try to snap a few to post if necessary.

[Matt Ocel]

Rob -

"Box" cabinets typically come with 1/4 x 8' lengths of toe kick.