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Thread: Making My List and Checking It Twice

  1. #1
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    Nov 2007
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    Making My List and Checking It Twice

    I’m a little hesitant about even posting this as I don’t want it to be taken in the wrong way but after 3 years of serious consideration and research I’ve decided to take the plunge into opening a professional custom furniture shop. That’s not why I'm hesitant; I just don’t want anyone to think I’m just dreaming and wasting everyone’s time or that I’m attempting to show off or bragging in any way. I can assure you I’m as serious as can be and am only asking for opinions because I’m going to be spending a fair amount of money.

    I have put a great deal of thought and research into the following list of equipment and would like any input or suggestions.

    • Saw Stop 5 HP table saw (the only saw I will consider after my little accident a few years ago)
    • Grizzly 3 HP Oscillating edge sander. 6” x 108” belt. # GO564
    • Grizzly 3 HP 19” Extreme bandsaw # GO514X2
    • Grizzly 2 HP cyclone dust collector #GO440
    • Grizzly Oscillating spindle sander #GO1071
    • Grizzly 20” 5 HP Spiral cutterhead planer #GO1033X
    • Grizzly 37” 10 HP Drum sander #GO449
    • Grizzly3 HP Shaper #G1026
    • Grizzly 1 HP Power feeder #G4181
    • Grizzly 12” Jointer with spiral cutterhead #GO609X
    • Jet 1642 Wood lathe and bed extension
    • Powermatic 719 Tilt table mortiser and stand
    • Fuji 4 Stage HVLP spray system
    • Exaktor EX 60 sliding table
    • Bosch 6.4 amp Barrel grip jig saw
    • 2 Triton routers (one for a router table)
    • Bosch ½ sheet sander
    That pretty much covers the new equipment list other than a 24” dovetail jig and a drill press. I have various other hand and power tools, clamps, saw blades, and so on. The only other major purchase is going to be a 4 X 8 ShopBott. Just as soon as I secure a space I will be placing my orders which should be in the next 30 days if all goes as planned.

    Obviously the majority of my list is Grizzly. I looked hard at Delta, Powermatic, Jet, Steel City, and General and seriously considered machines from each manufacturer. But after reading the reviews and comparing each piece of equipment and specifications, I’ve determined Grizzly offers the most bang for the buck. I’m going with the Powermatic mortiser because it has the longest stroke of any comparable machine and the Jet lathe because of the reviews. Fortunately the fine Sawmill Creek members in the turning section steered me toward the Jet rather than the Grizzly (thanks again guys!). The ShopBott is for cutting plywood into intricate shapes and adding carvings to certain pieces. Again, I’m just looking for a few opinions before I write the big checks.

    Thanks

    Terry
    Last edited by Terry Teadtke; 05-05-2008 at 3:24 AM.

  2. #2
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    Sep 2007
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    Terry, if you don't have at least some of this equipment already, are you sure you have the experience to start a business with this considerable investment?

  3. #3
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    Nov 2007
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Good Point

    I actually have a fair amount of equipment but I’m looking at is what I hope is a one time purchase. Some of my major tools are as follows:

    Delta Contractors saw with 52”Unifence
    6” Grizzly jointer
    Delta 12” planer
    An old Shop Smith I use for a lathe
    A Craftsman drill press
    A DeWalt 12” Compound Miter saw
    A Grizzly table top mortiser
    And various other smaller power tools

    The equipment listed above is all fine and well but in my opinion not suited for building large pieces of furniture.

    Fortunately I have another job as well that can at times leave me with a lot of free time so I will not be starving if my plan doesn't take off for a while. I’ve been building mission style furniture for almost 20 years and have designed a unique line of furniture which combines a couple of traditional styles.

    Terry

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    Phoenix AZ Area
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    Terry, do you have a business plan? I think a business plan might be the single most important thing to have. Some questions I'd want to have answered before starting.
    1) What do I think I can sell in my area?
    2) What is the competition for that product? How much do they charge?
    3) Am I going to build lots of the same thing (like stuff for craft fairs) or one off custom? Maybe cabinets and built-ins.

    I personally have spent a lot of time thinking about starting a cabinet shop. I haven't pulled the trigger because I can't find a business will make the income I want, and not be boring. It seems to me that there are very few folks making a good living doing high end one off stuff. I live in Phoenix so there isn't much architectural millwork, but if I lived in an area where that was popular, that's what I'd do. Cabinets look good, but in my area, I don't see how to compete with giant shops that are highly automated. I can buy red oak doors ready to finish for $7.00 a square foot. Pretty hard to beat that.

    Several pros I've read about make their living doing volume of simple things, cutting boards and stuff like that.

    How much an hour do you need to make. If shops in your area are paying say $15 an hour, what will you bring to the equation to generate more that that after covering your overhead and taxes?

    So far I am pushing my commercial dreams out until I don't need to make a living, (retired) and then I'll focus building one off custom things. With, the dream that folks will beat a path to my door

  5. #5
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    Nov 2007
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Have the business plan and all looks well.

    I’ve spent a great deal of time researching the custom and semi-custom furniture market here in Portland and feel there’s room for at least one more. I’ll have the standard line of mission style furniture that will be built on a semi-production scale and then I will have a high end line of my self-designed furniture.

    I’m in a rather unique situation here in Portland. Portland’s full of Craftsman style homes and the younger people are buying these Craftsman’s, restoring them, and furnishing them with high quality furniture. I just happen to be a Realtor in Portland and all I do is work with older homes including Craftsman’s

    http://terrysvintagehomes.com/

    I do a substantial amount of advertising directly to these older homes and should be able to piggyback my woodworking venture on my Real Estate advertising. Fortunately I’m not dependent on having to rely on my furniture business for income and actually plan on taking a year building up inventory before I actually start to market pieces. I’ll see what sells and then concentrate on those specific pieces. Maybe I’m going through a mid life crisis and I’m doing it wrong. Most guys going through a mid like crisis a get divorced, buy a Corvette, and date girls ½ their age. Me? I’m single, don’t care for Corvettes, and can’t stand the thought of dating someone young enough to be my daughter so I’m going to make sawdust with equipment that costs as much as a Corvette.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2007
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    Victoria, Australia
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    Terry, I love the houses on your web site ... if I was half a world closer, and several million richer, I think I'd be ringing your telephone

    Sorry for misunderstanding your original post. I thought you might have been making a frequent hobby-to-business-dream mistake, but it looks like you do have an interesting niche and the ability to take a risk without being killed if it fails.

    I've never seen a Grizzly - don't think anyone sells them here - so I'll leave the tool discussion for those with experience.

  7. #7
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    Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
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    Terry,

    Nich, nich, nich is the word for a sucessful small business and it looks like you have yours.

    Good luck and I hate you because I would love to have that list of tools delivered to my shop!

    Aloha, Pete

  8. #8
    I don't have the knowledge to answer my question. Is anyone concerned about the Grizzly 2 HP cyclone dust collector being undersized for some of the equipment listed (e.g. a 20" planer)? I know it depends on the ductwork layout and proximity of the big dust / chip producers to the dust collector.

    It especially seems like it would be undersized if two or more people (now or in the future) would be working in the shop at the same time.

    Mike

  9. #9
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    My first thought when reading your post was the same as Mike's - I would look into pushing up the specs on the DC. I would also reconsider the spray setup. Your shop will likely find 1,001 uses for lots of compressed air so, unless you need the portability the Fuji buys you, I would buy a big compressor and get a remote pressure-pot based conversion setup.

    As others have said, good luck and you appear to be off to a good start.

  10. #10
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    I was thinking the same thing Mike. I would suggest bumping up the DC to at least 5HP.

  11. #11
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    Some of the tools in a buddies cabinet shop here in small town IL. He also can do farmed out contracts for doors. Not comparing your selection of tools so please do not get offended. Just giving you a different perspective. Have you visited local profitable cabinet shops in your area????

    Blum dedicated euro hinge install machine
    37" Widebelt Timesaver with big conveyor tables in and out.
    3 different Weaver shapers all with LRH or Freeborn dedicated sets and three with Weaver power feeders, and one that uses the weaver sold template guides.
    2 Grizzly 3hp shapers also with dedicated freeborn sets and with feeders. He wants these 2 replaced with Weavers.
    A Ritter tilting 1.25" spindle profile sander (think sander built like industrial shaper) that uses custom made sanding heads
    5hp cyclone DC system with two 55 gallon bins
    8" jointer Grizzly (non spiral)
    20" planer Grizzly (non spiral)
    Jet Hybrid saw with sliding table
    The big standalone Kreg table with pneumatic hold down and foot operated controls
    A crazy wall mounted glue up press That has some air accuated clamping arm and these crazy ratcheting clamping - Don't know the brand (will update latter).
    A dedicated finishing room (big enough to finish a kitchen all at once) with blast proof fan and a Kremlin finishing sytem. Also has door racks, lazy susan spraying table, and flamable liquids cabinet.
    A small junky 12" craftsman bandsaw with marginal blades

    Your shop selections to me sound like a well outfitted hobby/multipurpose shop (just IMO). I think this because You have many tools on your list that are not typical cabinet maker tools and not enough "tool" in the machines you do need. IMO - forego the 719 mortiser, 19" bandsaw (although I give my buddy crap for his junky one), and lathe. Upgrade to a larger cyclone and one with DC layout/planning services. Use your existing mortiser, buy a smaller bandsaw, and buy some more shapers (you really need to think about change over frequency and the time spent here!!). Also consider a widebelt sander vs a Drum. Also I do not see freeborn/'LRH tooling or ductwork in the list but those are going to be serious expenses.

    You have a dedicated building for all this I hope.
    Last edited by Mike Heidrick; 05-05-2008 at 8:46 AM.

  12. #12
    Terry, here are my thoughts:

    - I wouldn't necessarily replace the stuff you have because it isn't considered pro grade. Wait until it is inadequate.

    - Call Grizzly and ask them for a package pricing deal. If they won't do it, call Jet/Powermatic, Delta, Laguna, etc. You're talking about spending tens of thousands of dollars here, so this is realistic.

    - Don't forget insurance for your tools and maybe yourself.

    - It is great that you won't be dependent on the shop income. This is key to risk management, IMO.

    - www.woodmagazine.com has some very nice Craftsman furniture plans. I'm working on the nightstands now.

  13. #13
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    Mar 2008
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    Hi Terry, I'm a retired cabinetmaker and I live in the Gorge 1 hour east of you. PM me if you want . I love to talk about this stuff. I made everything from kitchens to conference tables when I was in the wood business.

    I think it's great to do just what you're doing first, like asking for feedback here.

  14. #14
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    Central Michigan
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    One thing you may want to consider is buying all the tools at once? If you can get by with some of your existing tools and buy new stuff each year, you can have write offs for each year, not just for the first year. Do to the fact that you can only write off so much a year (also you can see what direction things are going you never know what pieces of equipment you may need instead that aren’t on your list that you need or dint realize )..just something to think about for the Tax man!!!!
    Richard Poitras
    Central, Michigan....
    01-02-2006


  15. #15
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    Nov 2007
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    Portland, Oregon
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    Just What I was Hoping For

    Just the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I forgot to mention I already have a compressor so I’m in good shape in the air department and I’m convinced I need to upgrade to a 5HP cyclone DC. I thought about asking Grizzly for some kind of bulk price and will see where that goes. Maybe a discount on shipping? We’ll see.

    I agree my equipment selection looks like a high-end hobby shop or low end professional shop and that was done intentionally. Some of my thinking is as follows:

    A Drum sander is way less expensive than a belt sander about the same size. I first was seriously considering a 26” Steel City drum sander but 26” wouldn’t be large enough for larger table tops to go through.

    Building the type a Mission furniture I do a mortise machine is essential. I have worn out my Grizzly mortiser and it didn’t have enough stroke capacity for larger pieces.

    At first I was seriously considering an 8” jointer but the 12” is not that much more expensive and will be large enough for building solid wood table tops. My 6” jointer was pretty limiting at times.

    A 20” planer should be large enough for most my glue-ups

    The 19” bandsaw is mostly for re-saw but is large enough for other work. My 12” Craftsman just isn’t large enough and never really was.

    I will periodically need turned pieces up to 5’ long and chose the Jet because it has an extension and looks to be a pretty good intermediate level machine. If more of my work consisted of turned pieces I would have seriously considered the Powermatic

    I figure one of three things will happen.

    1. My venture will be a complete flop, I’ll close the doors, and all the pieces of equipment will go home.

    2. I’ll do well enough to consider upgrading to a few pieces of more professional equipment and put a few more people on the payroll as time goes on.

    3. I’ll become busy enough to where it makes sense upgrade to production equipment such as the big wide belt sander, the big sliding table saw, the horizontal mortise machine and so on and so on. Then I’ll need hire more people and I can see quality control being an issue (anyone look closely at Stickly furniture lately?) But at that point of success you’re basically supervising a group of machine operators rather than woodworker so I’m not sure I want to get that big. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Many people do really well running that type of operation. It’s just not where I really want to go.

    Right now it’s just going to be me and my next door neighbor to help. We will see how it goes from there.

    Terry

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