Guide Rails - Festool vs the EZ Smart Guide

[Frank Pellow]

Those of you who have read many of my posts know that I am a big fan of Festool tools. I first learned about them on this WEB site and have since purchased:

- the ATF 55 E-plus circular saw

- the CT 22 E vacuum

- the PS 2 jig saw

- extra rails, systainers, clamps, blades, etc.

In fact, I have already more than blown my 2004 tool budget on Festool stuff alone.

I like a lot of things about the Festool tools that I own, but what I like best is the integrated guide rail system.

Recently I was reading an old thread entitled "circular saw options????" that was started on the 24th of February 2004 (before I joined this forum - by the way, I have learned a lot by reading some of these old threads). There is a reference there to the site:

http://www.eurekazone.org/products.html

If you look there you will find a description of a "made in the USA" guide rail system for use with most brands of circular saws and routers. According to what I read there, the system (called the EZ Smart Guide System) is quite competitive with the Festool system. It even offers some wrinkles not provided by Festool. ...And, the price appears to be right; I would not have blown my budget if I had purchased it instead.

I was disappointed that, although the site is referenced in the thread, there is very little discussion of the EZ system. I went looking for an independent assessment of these two on the WEB and found nothing. I would like to hear from anyone who has tried both systems and/or anyone who has a reference to a comparison between the two systems.

I believe that Dino Makropoulos who is member of this forum may be the creator of this system. I asked him in a private email but he has neither confirmed or denied it.

[eric hann]

Frank,
I first met Dino at TheWoodWorkers show in Denver last year. I went there for a Kreg pocket hole system, which I bought, and came back with the EZ Guide as well.
I also saw the EZGuide in the magazine "This Old House" December 2003 edition, page 107. It ranked #2 in the "20 of the year's coolest tools, gizmos and gadgets" #1 was the Rubik's Laser. I just dug out the issue to get the page number for ya :-)
I can't begin to describe the benefits of EZ Smart Guide.
To start, I get to use my own saw (I have a dewalt) and I can get my blades anywhere.
Next, I bought a molded platic gun case from WalMart to house my guide. Cost me $17.00.
I also have the Eurekazone Table and Router attachment.
As for the saw base, it took all of 15 minutes to install onto the base of my saw. I have another saw, so I mounted the EZ Guide base permanently. I have no interest in removing it.
Because the guide comes in just over 4ft sections ( I have 2), I join the sections together, as many as I want, and can make a perfect rip the length of a sheet of plywood without having anybody to help me balance over a table saw. THe Eurekazone table even keeps me from needing somebody to catch what I rip.
The zero offset allows me to measure exactly where I want my cut to be. There is no need to measure an offset to allow for the saw base.
The anti-chip guards have proven to be extrely successful. It's realy nice to get a smooth cut every time.
Turn the saw to get a miter. You get the same quality cut every time.
What is really cool is the clamps. The clamps slide up and down the rail allowing you to rip a sheet of plywood or cross cut for a jewely box.
Haven't found a thing that I couldn't get the clamps to work with.
I haven't used the router piece yet simply because I just got it recently. I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. However, the concept is the same ad the EZ Smart guide is the same so I have no doubt that I will be just as happy.
I don't own a FesTool but I've used one. It was ok.
The EZ Smart Guide system developed by Dino (yes, he's the inventor) is by far the most used tool in my garage.
I get a perfectly straight edge, can clamp the guide to any size length of wood, big or small, I want, get to use my own saw (I like Dewalt) and my own blades, keep it in a Walmart gun case I paid $17.00 for, never need to adjust measurements for the base of my saw, never worry about chipout, cut all the miters I want, do plunge cut if I need to, can safely rip a sheet of 3/4 plywood without a single soul to help me (using the table), throw it all in the back of my Jeep or store it all on a wall in the garage. If I add a cordless saw I can go to the top of the Rocky Mountains (I live in Colorado) and make a bookcase up there. Would probably have a problem with park rangers, but you get the idea.
The price for the EZ Smart Guide is extremely fair. You just supply the saw and the saw blades. For the table, you supply table legs and a few wood inserts.
One word of caution, if you have a light duty saw, go get a better one. When you start cutting with this thing, the speed and precision will cause you to build stuff, therefore needing more cuts. You'll simply kill a light duty saw.

For those that haven't bought the Fostool system, do yourself a huge favor and check out eurekazone.org

[Jim Taylor]

I have the Festool system, and am very happy with it. But, there does look to be some advantages with this system. It appears that you could clamp very narrow stock to the rail? Is that true? Does the saw clamp on the rail? It appears that it is almost riding on a keyed slot.

The down side, to me. This look much more dangerous than the Festool setup. That plunge cut looks down right scarey when compared to the Festool. Also, I like to be able to place the Festool on the side imediately after a cut, and not worry about a turning blade.

Jim

[JayStPeter]

I don't know. 99% of the reason I bought the Festool was the dust collection. Heck, I can make my own zero clearance guide rails.
The EZguide looks pretty cool, but the saw itself was the major issue for me.

Jay

[Chris Padilla]

Yeah, what Jay said...dust collection. I believe, in the future, that the various circular saw manufacturers will improve DC and then this system will be on par with Festool but it does appear to have advantages.

However, I did read that they can perform a plunge action with a normal saw...not sure how easily it can retract, however...probably lift your weight off it and it's up?

[eric hann]

Jim,
The clamps for the EZ Guide run on a rail under the guide so you can fit to any size wood.
The saw doesn't clamp to a rail. It simply rides on it. As for stopping, my Dewalt has a good brake.

Chris,
the plunge is just like you said. The guide keeps things straight. It doesn't provide spring action to lift the blade.
As for dust collection, my DeWalt could use some help in this department but I'm very comfortable with the feel of it. I have duplicate saws. One on the EZGuide base, one off of it.
My big goal of EZ Guide was replacing a table saw. I have a 2 car garage and my wife refuses to help me rip plywood. Between the cutting table and EZ Guide, my table saw is collecting dust (except for dado cuts) and my wife no longer gets asked to help.
The guide sections fit together using a rail insert, so you stay straight.
It's a whole lot safer than a table saw, without a doubt.

Frank,
You are right, I joined last night to answer you on EZ Guide.
I don't work for EurekaZone or have anything to do with the EZ Guide system other than as a consumer. I work for IBM. My EZ Guide gets used at my house.
Been reading threads for a while but this is the first thread where I actually had a positive experience to talk about where nobody else was already providing answers. It was only last November at The WoodWorkers Show in Denver that I discovered EZGuide.
Dino (the inventor) was at the show so I got to hit him with a bunch of questions and got to play with the tool before I actually bought it.
My father in-law and my next door neighbor also bought one while we were there.
Can't speak for them but they seem to like the guide too.
If you want to talk Kreg pocket hole systems, I've got favorable experiences there too. Father in-law didn't get that. He borrows mine.

The guide and sliding clamps aren't the only cool things with EZ Guide. The table is really cool. Again, haven't played with the router piece yet. The fact that Wal Mart had a plastic gun case that carries the whole guide (I have 2 sections so I can cut 8 ft) just made it that much more satisfying a tool.

Hopefully the EZ Guide will be a part of the woodworking show again this year so you folks can play with it a bit. http://thewoodworkingshow.com/

[eric hann]

Just went to the festools web site to grab the latest catalog. I don't own festools so I thought I ought to at least get a clue.

Then I went back to the eurekazone.org web site. Forgot there was a challenge posted out there...

http://eurekazone.org/challenge.html

Seeing as I don't own anything to challenge the EZ Guide with...
I figured I'd make sure the rest of you knew the challenge was out there in case you wanted to try for a free vacation and a couple grand :-)
No idea what the details of this challenge would be.

Regards,
Eric

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks for your comments, ehann. Per the Terms of Service, could you PM Jackie Outten and get your name corrected? SMC requries a real first and last name...you might seem less commercial this way!

I do hope they have the EZ Guide at the Sacramento show...I definately plan to give it a ride and see how it does. I am impressed with what I've read thus far but I need to see it in person to be sure. Festool makes some great stuff and I wouldn't mind NOT having to buy another circular saw but I've sure set my eyes on the Festool saw and guide.

Currently, I use a Clamp 'n Guide and my Skil Magnesium worm-drive saw on a 1.5" piece of foam insulation on the garage floor and/or driveway to knock down the plywood into more manageable pieces. It works fine but I am growing weary of it. The table is a cute idea...but I think I would just toss my foam on it and I'd be set. Obviously I don't have a workbench/table big enough to put a sheet of plywood on...I really need to remedy this!

Thanks very much for your insight. I am originally from Broomfield, Colorado...where are you at?

[eric hann]

Been checking out the FesTool catalog. Some cool stuff out there but I have questions on the guide rail and saw.
Please forgive if I sound dumb. Just trying to learn.

1) I just found the rail clamps. Do folks use them or are you using the clamps you have in your shop?
2) Can I use any blades or do I need the ones they show in the catalog?
Didn't find anything specific about this.
3) The unit comes with 55 inch guide (and a hefty price tag). I'm reading where there are different size guides (page 68 in festool catalog) I'm guessing that I need to buy different size rails? So, if I wanted to rip 8ft, I can choose between 95" (too small) or 106 inches for $159.00
Never mind, I see the connector now. Now I want to know what keeps the connector from jiggling around. It looks like there is nothing to hold it in place.
4) How do you stop chip on the right side of the blade? Do you tape it or do you assume that the right side will be trash?

I like the saw and the vacuum.
Don't like the price at all.
Festools has other things that are pretty cool but I don't think I'll be trading my EzGuide for this system.

On another note.. Can anybody comment on their sanders? They look really nice.

Regards,
Eric

[eric hann]

Chris, just sent a message to get my name straight.
So everybody knows, my name is Eric R Hann

Next...
I live in Firestone (near where 52 and I25 meet) I work at IBM in Boulder.

[Chris Padilla]

Been checking out the FesTool catalog. Some cool stuff out there but I have questions on the guide rail and saw.
Please forgive if I sound dumb. Just trying to learn.

1) I just found the rail clamps. Do folks use them or are you using the clamps you have in your shop?
2) Can I use any blades or do I need the ones they show in the catalog?
Didn't find anything specific about this.
3) The unit comes with 55 inch guide (and a hefty price tag). I'm reading where there are different size guides (page 68 in festool catalog) I'm guessing that I need to buy different size rails? So, if I wanted to rip 8ft, I can choose between 95" (too small) or 106 inches for $159.00
Never mind, I see the connector now. Now I want to know what keeps the connector from jiggling around. It looks like there is nothing to hold it in place.
4) How do you stop chip on the right side of the blade? Do you tape it or do you assume that the right side will be trash?

I like the saw and the vacuum.
Don't like the price at all.
Festools has other things that are pretty cool but I don't think I'll be trading my EzGuide for this system.

On another note.. Can anybody comment on their sanders? They look really nice.

Regards,
Eric

Ah, Festool sanders. You've hit a soft spot in my heart for this one!

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=6874 explains quite a bit!

The sander is quiet, the vacuum is quiet...sanding is actually fun if you can believe it. Nary a spec of sawdust to be found with Festool, too. I never did pick up the Rotex but I bet I will someday. For now, the 150/5 is an awesome ROS and it gets LOTS of use in my garage...even my wife has used it extensively.

I also did my undergrad in Ft. Collins, grad work in Boulder, and an ex of mine is from Erie. Now I'm at Cisco Systems in Silly-con valley. I sure miss snow!

[Jim Becker]

The EZGuide system looks nice...as a guide. But one thing that is in Festool's favor is the fact that it's not about the guide so much as it's about the system. Keep in mind that the Festool plunge saws, jigsaws and routers that ride on the guide also have extraordinary dust control...something that is missing when you use a "traditional" circular saw. The plunge mechanisim on the circular saws, itself, makes for doing things that cannot be done (easily) with other systems and the "zero-clearance" lineup of the blade with the guide makes for perfect placement every time.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying that this is necessary for everyone, but it does need to be kept under consideration. If your needs are just for a great guide system to use with your existing tools, than the EZGuide setup or something similar is generally going to be a somewhat cost effective solution. If you need to do work in conditions where dust control is important...like in a client's home...then the Festool system really shines. That's just one example.

Make sure when you are comparing things like this that you keep in mind both features and how you will be using it. The latter might mean a different choice is more appropriate, even if it requires a larger initial investment.

[JayStPeter]

1) I just found the rail clamps. Do folks use them or are you using the clamps you have in your shop?
2) Can I use any blades or do I need the ones they show in the catalog?
Didn't find anything specific about this.
3) The unit comes with 55 inch guide (and a hefty price tag). I'm reading where there are different size guides (page 68 in festool catalog) I'm guessing that I need to buy different size rails? So, if I wanted to rip 8ft, I can choose between 95" (too small) or 106 inches for $159.00
Never mind, I see the connector now. Now I want to know what keeps the connector from jiggling around. It looks like there is nothing to hold it in place.
4) How do you stop chip on the right side of the blade? Do you tape it or do you assume that the right side will be trash?

I like the saw and the vacuum.
Don't like the price at all.
Festools has other things that are pretty cool but I don't think I'll be trading my EzGuide for this system.

On another note.. Can anybody comment on their sanders? They look really nice.

Regards,
Eric

1. I don't use any clamps. The guide rails have rubber strips on the bottom that keep them in place quite well.
2. Unfortunately, I think they are metric blades. Dunno if someone else makes blades for them yet. The included blade cuts incredibly nice. I would guess that I will get one more and have them sharpened. Can't really imagine I would need a different blade for anything. Still have a "cheaper" circular saw to do construction duty.
3. The connector works pretty well. There are little set screws built into it that hold the rails together pretty well. The saw fits the rail guide so tight that I do have to tweak the joint until the saw will pass it smoothly. I could loosen the fit of the saw on the rails, but I feel I want as much accuracy as possible.
4. I believe Festool assumes the right side is trash. But, as I mentioned, the blade is real nice. While there is light chipout, it's nothing compared to my old circular saw with homemade guide. I had a pretty good Freud blade for it, but there's no comparison. I believe the tighter tolerances of the Festool saw make the cut nicer.

The price is hard to swallow. But at $200, the ez guide aint that cheap. Add $100 for the saw and you're within $25 of what I paid for the Festool (on sale). I also had to pony up a little more to get 8' of cutting. But, it's not really that much out of line. Plus, I made about 20 8' cuts in some 1/2" chip board the other day and barely had to sweep up. It drops a small amount of dust under the cut, but nothing flys around. I would've been covered in sawdust using another circular saw. As it was, I might've had a few specs on my shoe.
All it took for me was seeing a cut. Both the quality of the cut and the little dust left and I was convinced.

I didn't buy a Festool vac. I have a Fein, and the demos didn't convince me I needed anything else.

I am thinking that a 150/5 sander might be in my future though.

Jay

[Robert Ducharme]

Hey Eric

Good to see some Colorado represented here. Was starting to feel lonely.

[Chris Padilla]

C'mon, Bob...I got yer back! I wear Bronco orange and Rockie Purple and drink Avalanche ice all year round! Now them Nuggies are looking good with 'Melo leading the way. I still remember trying to study for finals in '93 in the Common when the Nugs upset the #1 seeded Sonics only to fall in game 7 to Utah in the next round.