Early Spear and Jackson saw

[Jim Paulson]

Hello,

I ran across an early Spear and Jackson handsaw and I was close to purchasing it. It is a 4 point rip, but has a broken tooth. The first 6-8 inches are about 5-6 points. The saw was cleaned up and the handle is in good condition. The owner wants $50 and I might use it for demonstrations at an 18th century homestead. I believe that the broken tooth might have been several inches from the handle end. Any thoughts on whether cutting performance might be hampered or if $50 might be too steep for the purchase?

Jim in Upstate New York

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Jim,

A few missing teeth won't affect the performance.

Its more important it has a nice straight blade and that that the other teeth are jointed / set /sharpened.

As for price, it depends entirely on condition. For that price I would expect it to be pretty clean, good handle straight blade, not too much pitting etc.

Hope that helps. Spear and Jackson made beautiful saws.

Regards Ray

[Jim Paulson]

Thanks Ray. I'll check its condition. Any thoughts on using the 4 point for resawing. Garrett Hack seemed to favorite it. I've used a stanley 5-5 1/2 point for years with mixed results.

Jim

[Ray Gardiner]

Hi Jim,

Just noticed, your post count, welcome to SMC. you will find a wealth of information lives around here.

Yes 4 point for rip is good.

Regards
Ray

[James Carmichael]

Hello,

I ran across an early Spear and Jackson handsaw and I was close to purchasing it. It is a 4 point rip, but has a broken tooth. The first 6-8 inches are about 5-6 points. The saw was cleaned up and the handle is in good condition. The owner wants $50 and I might use it for demonstrations at an 18th century homestead. I believe that the broken tooth might have been several inches from the handle end. Any thoughts on whether cutting performance might be hampered or if $50 might be too steep for the purchase?

Jim in Upstate New York

If it's got plenty of blade width left, it can always be jointed flat & new teeth cut, even changing the pitch/style.

I can't speak to the price, I guess whatever it's worth to you.

[Jim Paulson]

James,
I like your idea. Maybe I was dwelling too much on the individual teeth as opposed to the whole set. I wouldn't be the first. (Can't see the forest from the trees) Maybe I was hoping someone by now had found a way to add metal or repair individual saw teeth. You can mend band saw blades, however I don't know if one could involve repairing teeth.

Peace,
Jim

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Jim, like Ray said in his couple responses, a tooth here or there won't really affect the saw. And if it bugs you down the road, it can always have new teeth punched or hand filed in.

Unfortunately or fortunately (however one looks at the issue), it is neither worth the effort nor risk to tig a new tooth on. Yes, a BS band can have a new tooth on. But a reair to a hand saw would be comparable to welding a new tooth on a $12 band, not a Resaw King or Trimaster.

One thing about the saw...gosh I love S&Js! If it is in decent condition--wood is most all there, not cracked, blade can be a bit ugly, but no real pitting near the teeth, $50 isn't a bad cost. I would suggest cleaning the blade so it is as bright as easily obtainable. Clean the handle to whatever level of comfort pleases you. Sharpen the thing up and have a great time doing the demos with it. Lovely saws to use.

There is a thread with pictures by Stephen Shepherd with one of his S&Js and one of mine in it. Either saw I would spend $40-$50 for if I really wanted one for period type demos. A vintage saw from the 18th century is a rare find if in usable shape--most are not. So the S&J will get you really near it.

Take care, Mike

[Jim Paulson]

Hey Mike thanks for the response. I hope to sharpen it soon and put it to use. One last question though is this, the toothline on my S&J is concave or forms an upward shaped arc with a height of 1/8 ". Is that what Chris Schwartz meant when he referred to your saws as having a breasted toothline? Or should I chalk up the curvature of the toothline as an artifact of sharpening?

Thanks again,
Jim

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Jim,

Yes, breasting is the convex shape of the toothline. I shoot for a larger one on a rip of that toothing, but it's all good. On a saw of that toothing and length that is a rip saw, I go one tooth height at about mid-point along the length, or a little forward of it.

Take care, Mike

[Jim Paulson]

Mike,

If the toothline is opposite of what you described, i.e., it forms a gentle curve that is concave, I guess it means a bunch of filing, right? Looking at Tools: Working Wood in Eighteenth-Century America by James M. Gaynor and Nancy L. Hagedorn, p. 83 on the bottom of the page, the toothline on my S&J looks more like those early saws that they depicted.

I'll have fun with it, regardless. Thank you again for your helpfulness.

Blessings,
Jim

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Ah, convex means a lack of jointing when sharpening--and going heavier in the middle than the extents.

I'll take a look in the Williamsburg book when I get to the shop (which is where it is at). But if when the saw is standing on a flattish surface with the toothed edge down and there is convexity, it is breasted. If there is concavity, it is sloppy maintenance in the past.

An 1/8" is a lot to file out. Take it easy, do it in a couple sharpening sessions. You will go through 2-3 files. You need a long flat file to joint with. The longer the better, but a 10" will be fine. The process by hand will be to joint, but not the full length at first. Just the ends, trying to maintain a relatively straight line, even though the file will want to follow the concavity. Do not remove the entire teeth unless you are going to alter the number of teeth.

The shape the teeth where you have jointed. Then joint again. Then file some more, then, well, you get the picture. Keep it up until you can pass the flat file from one end to the other and hit all the tips, making sure any convexity no longer exists. Then shape one last time...then sharpen.

The other option is to take the saw to a service and have them punch new teeth but not sharpen, unless they can do a good job. Even then, with the evenly spaced teeth, it is a great time to learn to sharpen yourslf.

Take care, Mike

[Jim Paulson]

Mike,

Awesome comments. Maybe I'll get hooked on tuning up and using handsaws again. For years I've been into wooden planes through the work of Roy Underhill and James Krenov, its time for a change. Like a bunch of woodworkers out there, I love having an excuse to work with a hand tool even if I have a machine that can do it.

As for buying a bunch of files, thank God for Harbor Freight.

Thanks again,
Jim