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Thread: Is a radial arm saw dangerous?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    Is a radial arm saw dangerous?

    Occasionally I see a reference to a RAS being a dangerous tool. For 30 years I had a Craftsman as my only stationary power tool. Used it to build a dining table with mitered rip joints, work bench with drawers and when a tornado blew the roof off my house I did all the repairs. Lots of crosscuts, but also included ripping 900' of 2x12s to provide for drainage off the roof.

    I know I am unaware of some things and must be oblivious to potential danger. What almost happened to me that I never saw? Am I a really lucky guy?

    Just curious. Craftsman recalled the saw for safety reasons and I opted for $100 instead of a repair kit so I could buy a SawStop table saw and a 12" DeWalt CMS. I thought that would make me a more precise woodworker. Still trying.

    Jerry

  2. #2
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    I personally don't think that it is any more dangerous than any other power tool. Like all of them, you have to use your head for more that something to bounce wood pieces off of. . I built a complete set of kitchen cabinets with one. I would draw the line at the moulding head cutters. I used mine once, and put it right back in the package. I still have it, but it will never be used. Scary thing, that hunk of metal.
    That RAS bit the dust cutting Pavestone wall block. But I do have my Dad's even older Craftsman RAS. I've got it hooked up, but doubt that I'll find a reason to use it...unless I have some more retaining wall to build.
    On a similar note, I was in Home Depot the other day, and glanced at their big RAS they cut customer wood with. A Delta, 14" I'm guessing. It had a box with slots for the blade to ride in, and a ratcheting hold down of sorts on either side of the box to push the wood against the fence. It made the blade where you couldn't even see it. (that's why I'm guessing it was 14") Looked incredibly safer than even the Emerson guard that was part of the recall. Jim.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim O'Dell View Post
    I personally don't think that it is any more dangerous than any other power tool. Like all of them, you have to use your head for more that something to bounce wood pieces off of. . I built a complete set of kitchen cabinets with one. I would draw the line at the moulding head cutters. I used mine once, and put it right back in the package. I still have it, but it will never be used. Scary thing, that hunk of metal.
    That RAS bit the dust cutting Pavestone wall block. But I do have my Dad's even older Craftsman RAS. I've got it hooked up, but doubt that I'll find a reason to use it...unless I have some more retaining wall to build.
    On a similar note, I was in Home Depot the other day, and glanced at their big RAS they cut customer wood with. A Delta, 14" I'm guessing. It had a box with slots for the blade to ride in, and a ratcheting hold down of sorts on either side of the box to push the wood against the fence. It made the blade where you couldn't even see it. (that's why I'm guessing it was 14") Looked incredibly safer than even the Emerson guard that was part of the recall. Jim.
    I have the same saw, without the giant safety box. The orange borg recently added that safety mechanism. Great for construction cuts, but I do precisions stuff with mine and that would never do

  4. #4
    Yes
    No
    Depends on who you talk to, and their experiences with a RAS.

    Personally, for the most part, I say no. Not any more dangerous than other saws.

    I use one for rough cutting lumber to length.

    I'll never rip lumber with one. I saw that done once, and decided it wasn't for me.


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Booher View Post
    Am I a really lucky guy?


    Jerry
    Yes. Very lucky.
    I called SEARS 18 years ago and I told them to take their junk
    out of peoples hands.
    That did it... 15 years later.

  6. #6
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    I've been using one for around 25 years. I started out with an old Wards and used it for years. About five years ago I got a 10" Delta. I would love to have a 14" DeWalt or Original Saw Company saw, but can't justify the expense.

    Early on I tried ripping with the Wards RA'S and had some ugly kickbacks. I could rip large pieces of plywood fairly well, but ripping solid stock was scary, and I soon quit trying to rip anything with it.

    I use mine all the time, mostly for regular crosscutting. I can't remember the last time I did miter cuts with it; mostly I use the table saw for miter work, unless it's framing, then I use the chop saw. Mostly I use it for rough crosscutting stock prior to milling; if I have a number of pieces all the same length, I will set up a stop and use it for the final crosscutting, too. I also use it a lot for joinery. I just did a number of M&T joints. I cut all the initial shoulder cuts with the RA'S, then used the table saw to cut out the cheeks (using a home made tenon cutter that slides on the fence); then used the band saw to cut the short shoulders. I also use it for lap and bridle joints. If I was a finish carpenter or did interior cabinet and trim work I would probably use a SMCS on the job site because they are much easier to set up for miter cuts, but that's not normally the type of work I do.

    Ripping aside, I don't think a RAS is any more or less safe than any other power saw. The important thing is to always be aware of where the blade is, use the right blade to minimize self feeding, always push the blade ALL the way back when finishing a cut, and paying attention to where your hands and fingers are at all times. We use a SCMS in my shop at school, and I'm getting used to it, although I still prefer a RAS. However, all the other shop teachers are convinced that a radial arm saw in a high school shop is about as safe as an open drum of fuming nitric acid, so we'll probably never get one. That's too bad, because most of the commercial cabinet shops I know of have at least one, usually a 14 or 16" model, for dimensioning stock.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    I started working at 19 on large commercial buildings in L.A. and went through the union apprentice program.

    We used on all jobsites the very large RAS that is on wheels and you tow behind a truck. Used one of these for years and on one job that was all I ever did every day.
    Ripping plywood and also making wedges out of 2x4's.

    Never felt it was dangerous, never felt any "tool" was more or less dangerous.
    I always felt the most dangerous thing on a job was other people.
    Of the three times I was hurt bad not one was from a tool but all were from another worker.

    I picked up one about 3 months ago from a guy who sold it for $30!!!!
    He said he wanted it out of his shop because he was scared to use it. He should stay away from ANY power tool LOL

    Go figure.......

    Aloha, Pete
    Last edited by Peter Luch; 07-28-2008 at 2:20 AM. Reason: addition

  8. #8
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    Jerry,
    For rip cuts, I think it's more dangerous than most other home woodshop machines. For crosscuts and dados, it's pretty safe as long as you abide by two rules: (1) Never put your hand in the line of the sawblade's path, and; (2) Ensure the fence is tall enough when dadoing thick stock.

    I received the new retrofit guard for my Sears saw. I don't see the improvement, nor thought that an improvement was needed over the original guard.

    -Jeff

  9. #9
    My LOML purchased new in 1968 a Dewalt 7740 10" RAS. This machine has been a true work horse. I've only used two elevation belts and this week plan on installing a new set of Yoke bearings. First time after 40 years. Had a problem with the bevel lock but thanks to some fine folks we were able to get the right configeration of parts for the bevel latch level etc. Thanks Dana!!!
    If you stop and think out your next cut, don't take for granted the boards won't kick back, always use commom sense and keep your free hand away from the path and return path of the blade you should be fine. Learn to respect the machine.

  10. Of course it is.
    It has a motor, a blade, and can be used wrongly and things can go wrong.
    In those respects it's like most other saws
    So yes it's dangerous.

    But really the operator is what is dangerous.

  11. #11
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    I like Cliff's comments, of course it's dangerous, it's a power tool.

    My two complaints with radial arm saws are;

    - ripping, an absolute no no in my book.

    - cross cutting, since the cuts are esentially climb cuts under hand feed, they are always dangerous.

    When I worked in industry, we had many swing saws for cross cutting rough lumber, they also are a climb cut, the difference was that they had cylinders that controlled the rate of swing, so that the saws couldn't climb up over the work. We also had radial arm saws, however they were all replaced following accidents with experienced operators.

    Many people, through careful, safe operation of radial arm saws have a perfect safety record.

    The safety record of radial arm saws however hasn't been that great, due to the basic problems of ripping, and climb cutting.

    So from a design standpoint, is the saw dangerous, yes, more so than a table saw for ripping, or a mitre saw for cross cutting.

    There are safer alternatives out there.


    Regards, Rod.

  12. #12
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    No more dangerous than any powered saw with a circular blade. The most dangerous tool in a shop is an operator that is not educated in the proper use of a machine, whether it's a table saw, jointer, drill press, radial arm, or fill in the blank. Proper use of a RAS includes the following:
    • Starting with a solidly built machine
    • A flat table and a good fence
    • Good machine alignment in all axis
    • Using a proper blade
    • Using the guards
    • Cutting only stock that has a flat face to put on the table, and a straight edge to put against the fence
    • An educated operator
    With these things, a RAS is a fine tool, and as safe as any IMHO.
    DESIGN is EVERYTHING! Without good design, the greatest craftsmanship is wasted. Not all great museum pieces are of the best craftsmanship. It was design that made them a treasure. -- Wallace Kunkel, aka Mr. Sawdust

  13. #13
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    Terminology: Hazardous vs. Dangerous

    Actually, the proper terminology is that it is 'hazardous'. Only when used improperly does it become 'dangerous'.

    Nothing in your home shop or workplace should ever be dangerous.

    -Jeff

  14. #14
    The best safety feature on a RAS is that big blade spinning right in line with your nose. Helps keep the attention focused. Per hour of use, there are more injuries with jointers and shapers. This is because the little cutter is spinning so fast it is invisible and once the stock is fed into it, the cutting edge is down under the work and out of sight.

    FWIW, The RAS was my only stationary tool for many years. I've used it for every conceivable cut; ripping, mitering, cross-cutting, shaping, dadoing, sanding and planing. Now, its mostly used for cross-cutting. Even though I have a sliding table saw, the RAS is perfect for laying a 16' 4"x4" up there, putting the blade exactly on the line and getting a square face, the stock not moving or having to be controlled until the blade is out of the way and I can use both hands to deal with it.

    Those toy "SCMS" are OK for on-the-job-site trim, but I'll always prefer a well-tuned commercial-duty RAS for real wood work.

    thnx, jack vines
    Last edited by Jack Vines; 07-28-2008 at 12:06 PM.

  15. #15
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    As others have said all power tools can be dangerous if used improperly. Because of the price and offered benefits, the RAS became quite popular and was a first power tool for many woodworkers. It was also distributed through a chain store that many people frequented. My Dad purchased one for his first saw and worked on it many years without a problem that I can recall or know of.

    Ripping on one is where most people go wrong. The trick with ripping is to get the tips of the teeth beyond the bottom of the cut and to use the splitter and anti kick back pawls that came on the saw. This means you have to bury the teeth into the wood table. The early saws had a curved groove cut across the table just for this purpose, but that feature disappeared on later versions. If you don't get the teeth below the wood surface you run a high risk of a kick back. A proper rip cut requires the blade guard to be rotated so that the front edge just cleared the wood on the infeed side to prevent the board froam raising up and then lower the kick back pawls and round splitter so they were engaged on the outfeed side of the wood. You also had to make sure the carriage swivel, tilt and slide were all properly tight and locked down. Leaving any one of them loose would lead to binding.

    The other major mistake was using blades without negative tooth rake. However, it should be noted that this tooth feature was not available until later on after the saws were introduced and people were sitching to carbide tipped blades.

    I still have mine but it doesn't see much use as the TS is generally faster and more accurate for most cut set ups.
    Lee Schierer
    USNA '71
    Go Navy!

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