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Thread: Trimming out a house - how to bid?

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    1,363
    "The General Contrator wants me to bid labor only - he would supply all materials. Everything is paint grade. (In his words - he doesn't want "furniture"!)"

    According to my understanding of construction jargon the translation goes something like this:

    GC: "I've blown my budget already - I want someone to help me eat the overruns (i.e. work for free). I am going to buy the cheapest grade materials and let the free labor fight with it to make it presentable. I'll tell him I don't want furniture grade, but have him back to redo everything after the punch list is done - Oh, I don't pay extra for call-backs."


    Gee, now that I reread this I guess I'm a wee bit jaded. Been around the construction industry too long.

    Wes

  2. #17
    Hi Tod

    I would give two prices. One would be "labor for the whole job", just like he asked for. 6300 sq feet crown and built ins would be $28,000. There are a lot of cost associated with a job like that which you would incur that have nothing to do with labor. For example you might have to pay for a lawyer to put a mechanics lien on the house when the GC doesn't pay you. Mind you that should be done at the FIRST sign of trouble as you don't want to be the 15th guy in line behind all the other liens. The other price would be:

    "Tell me how much you want to spend and where you want me to start. I will tell you when you have run out of money. My rate is $55 an hour, I provide labor and tools, you provide materials. I get paid even when I have to wait for you to provide materials."

    Make sure you get paid for the first batch before you do any more work. He will have a song and dance about how he doesn't have any money until he gets paid for the house. That isn't your problem it's his problem. And if he has a problem paying you then you are going to have a much bigger problem down the road.

    Good Luck
    The Large print givith
    and the fine print takith away

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Granbury, TX
    Posts
    1,458
    Todd,

    There is a great demand in my area for good trim carpenters. In fact, I would expect that anywhere they are building lots of new houses, there is plenty of demand. The guy who did my house (I am ashamed to say, it was only paint grade and mdf, because I couldn't afford the good stuff) was and is excellent, and he is booked months in advance.

    Here's my point. If your business is fine as is, and you like what you are doing, keep doing what you like. Everyone who has seen your work, on the net or in person, knows you are an excellent craftsmen.

    However, if business is slow, or you don't have a preference for the kind of woodworking you do, then perhaps you should consider trimming out houses. Why? Money and job security...

    If you decide that is what you want to do, I would suggest you start with a smaller house, and not on a tight schedule. With any new type of work, there will be a learning curve, and it would be better to bid a smaller house, or maybe a couple, until you figure out how to bid accurately, and exactly how to write the contract so you don't get burned. Better to get burned once or twice on a smaller job, then to get really burned on a big job.

    The guy who trimmed my house had two helpers at the time working with him. Sometimes he and one guy worked on my house, while the third guy was doing callbacks on previous jobs. Trimming is not a one man job, so you would need to consider hiring help, and all the headaches that go with it.

    I have no idea how competitive the market is, i.e., if the builders can dictate prices to you or not. That would be something else to consider.

    Good luck in your decision. I know, either way, you will continue to be successful.

    Martin
    Last edited by Martin Shupe; 04-27-2004 at 2:25 PM. Reason: spelling error
    Martin, Granbury, TX
    Student of the Shaker style

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    4,563
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Bischel
    "The General Contrator wants me to bid labor only - he would supply all materials. Everything is paint grade. (In his words - he doesn't want "furniture"!)"

    According to my understanding of construction jargon the translation goes something like this:

    GC: "I've blown my budget already - I want someone to help me eat the overruns (i.e. work for free). I am going to buy the cheapest grade materials and let the free labor fight with it to make it presentable. I'll tell him I don't want furniture grade, but have him back to redo everything after the punch list is done - Oh, I don't pay extra for call-backs."


    Gee, now that I reread this I guess I'm a wee bit jaded. Been around the construction industry too long.

    Wes
    Beautifully rendered, Wes....if I had a nickel for everytime I've heard that song-and-dance from a GC....well, I'd have at least a couple dollars!

    Todd, just thought of what to tell the GC: "Cheap, fast, good. You can pick only two."
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  5. #20

    Building cabinets isnt trim

    I do this for a livin and cabinets are cabinets to be priced seperately from "Trimming out" a house. I think the builder is smoking crack if he expects it done in 4 weeks including built ins or cabinets. Maybe hes just extremely inexperienced . I can give you pricing that I use for piece work such as crown, casing,door installation etc. Outsourcing would be the only viable alternative to the timing issue ( Cabinets,builtins, etc. by others}. I do general contracting -large renovations and new home construction along with custom work for other GCs{very few}. If you work this out GET A SIGNED CONTRACT.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chappell Hill, Texas
    Posts
    4,741
    Thanks to you all for your insightful feedback on this. A couple folks eluded to one of the things I was looking for, specifically, and that was how to price the different aspects. I like the "cabinets are cabinets and they get priced accordingly" and the "trim is trim and everything else is extra." If I looked at the $1.35 for the entire job, that's only $8,505 for 4 weeks, and if I had to hire, say 6 fast, good guys @ $15/hour, 8/hours a day, 6 days a week, 4 weeks, my payroll would be $17K+. That obviously won't work.

    Now, if I charged $1.35 for just the baseboard, crown, window and door casings, and then charge separately for hanging doors, cabinets, bookcases, built-ins, etc..., that would have to produce a better result.

    I'm not going to take this job, as I just don't know (that I know, that I know,) if I could meet his deadline. I know the CG from church, and also the homeowner from church, and they both know the quality of work that I do. (The CG even has an end table I made for him. (http://www.burchwoodusa.com/miscpix/.../endtable.html)) So if I agreed to his terms, I would "darn" well need to meet it.

    There will be other opportunities for this type of work, and I would like to trim a house someday (before I build and trim my own!!) , I just don't think this is the right one. Not now anyway. Perhaps if it was a "big exposure" opportunity, I would consider it.

  7. #22
    I think you're smart not to do this one Todd. I've been asked by two different car club members to GC their new homes. I politely refused both telling them that I would come in at twice what anyone else would and I even explained why. My reasoning is that I would not hire any unskilled laborers, use no OSB, MDF or Masonite and that there would be no completion date in stone. I would love to do this someday before I build my retirement home, but I am not one to cut corners or do things on a faster than realistic schedule, especially not on an friend's home.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Idyllwild CA Southern Ca in the mountians 100 miles east of LA
    Posts
    62
    This says it all "CG from church, and also the homeowner from church". To many interconecting links. You made the correct choice.

    Jim from Idyllwild CA

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