Proposal: Stanley plane parts swap thread

[Todd Ferrante]

Let me start with a little background...
I am not a plane collector, though I have aspirations of one day having a set of user planes either 2 through 8 or 602 through 608.

Inspired by my Dad, who was building a strip built kayak, about 3 years ago I started picking up planes at garage sales and flea markets. My rule of thumb has been no more than $5 for a plane. Recently I've upped that to $10 if the plane has zero damage. I've ended up with 4 fully fettled user planes (one of which went to my Dad as a gift), two more complete planes ready for fettling, and half a dozen planes in various states of repair. These parts planes range from needing only the lateral adjustment lever to be complete, through cracked castings, to needing nearly everything but the body and frog.

Given that I've accumulated this "parts collection" on the cheap, I am disinclined to mess around with ebay for either buying or selling. I don't like ebay for a whole host of reasons I don't need to list here.

So, what is the best way to both get the parts I need to complete some planes, as well as pass on to others the parts I won't need and which are adding to the clutter in my shop? Reviewing other posts in this forum, and others, it seems I'm not the only one out there in this boat.

My idea is for a venue something along the lines of a site my wife participates in called paperback swap. On that site you post a list of books you want and a list of books you will trade. When you have a book someone wants, you send it to them. When someone has a book you want, they send it to you. The site keeps track of how many you have sent and received, and keeps it so you never receive more than you send out. Books are evenly swapped one for one.

An exactly analogous system would probably not work for hand plane parts. Replacement rear totes are more highly in demand, for example, than replacement lever caps. It would be up to the individuals involved to determine their swaps. But, we could at least post lists of the parts we want and the parts we are offering for trade. I'm willing to bet something like this would help other people complete their partial planes as well as clearing out clutter.

So, what does the community think? Would this be a useful thing? Would you be willing to swap your surplus parts for parts you need? If so, I'll get the ball rolling by posting some of my surplus parts as well as a want list. When listing offered parts, I would list the plane Type the parts are from, their description, their condition, and post pictures. Swaps could be arranged via PM to keep the thread uncluttered. To keep the thread from being overwhelmed with "wanted" lists, you have to offer more parts than you need. When items are no longer available, they would be removed by the original posters. And no selling prices listed. While people could offer to buy parts from offerers, if they had nothing to trade, the main intent is to facilitate swapping.

This thread could reside in this forum, or in the marketplace forum.

Feedback?
Todd F.

[Mike Brady]

I like this idea very much. I'm not sure of the rules here, but it might have to go into a swap and sell forum. Why not give it a try? I have some stuff to put out there too.

[Chris Kennedy]

I'm in favor. Wherever it ends up, I think we should consider a strictly "trade" environment as a term of service.

I have a couple of old Stanleys with chipped mouths that would be great sources of parts.

Chris

[Dave Anderson NH]

I don't want to be a wet blanket on this thing, but from the perspective of the staff and moderators, this has the potential of being a lot of work and we are already stretched a good bit of the time. Additionally there are the problems of policing a large community as to who owes whom, who didn't deliver as promised, he said-she said, and is the blivet worth as much as the widget. Theroretically, and with everyone following the rules, it could work. Unfortunately human nature being what it is, we would be subject to eBay and other sellers posting and abusing the system... we've seen it happen over and over again here. From my viewpoint, it is a trainwreck waiting to happen with little or no upside for the majority of the members or for the Creek as a whole.

As a partial answer to fulfiilling the need, we currently have a Classifieds Forum which is open to members, but where the ads can only be posted by contributors. If you are a contributor, you can post ads for the personal sale, swap, or need for woodworking items.Many of our members and contributors have received some great deals there and helped theri fellow woodworkers unload unwanted or outgrown tools.

[Lee Koepke]

I need one screw for the tote on my #5 type 9

I am interested in this concept too. My knowledge and experience is equivalent to a grain of sand in the desert, but I could see this as another way that SMC could help people.

[Todd Ferrante]

So we have established that at Sawmill Creek, the proper place for the thread would be the classified area. And also that the moderators don't want to become responsible for policing.

So, let's add the additional question to judge the level of interest: Are you willing to become a contributer ($6) in order to participate? Also, is there an existing website, perhaps devoted to handplanes, which might be a better place to conduct such a part swap activity?

Please don't start posting offers and want lists in this thread. That will get the idea killed quicker than just about anything.

Todd F.

[Richard Niemiec]

Gee, another great idea concieved, and it appears to have had labor induced so as to render it stillborn.

Perhaps a few retorical questions may stimulate discussion. Why is "policing" and "control" so important; everybody knows they are on their own in such endeavors. How much is really at risk; perhaps only parts useless to the respective owners - nothing ventured, nothing gained. Would "abuse" of the "system" really occur if no sales could occur; after all the more valuable, say, bedrock parts will be sent to Ebay or posted for sale. I'm scratching my head over this one. I, for one, have sent parts to other Creekers gratis, as I believe that kharma works in circles. A true handtools parts exchange should be embraced as an opportunity for this forum to distinguish itself, perhaps yet again, from others out there on the net.

Todd's got a great idea here, but if anyone has noticed, the OCD nature of rulemaking and fee-only access has had the effect, IMHO, of really cutting back the availability of handtools, and parts for that matter, in the classified section, and diminishing, not enhancing, the user experience.

So, I encourage those in a position to decide such things to relax, lean back and think of the possibilities of Todd's concept.

RN

[Johnny Kleso]

I have plans to add this new forum to my website when I update it..

I can add a Hand Planes Part Swap tonight

http://woodworker.yuku.com/directory

[Michael Faurot]

Why is "policing" and "control" so important;

If you enjoy the ability to go to the Neaderthal forum (or any of the forums) and only see relevant posts, no spam, no flame wars, etc. then you have an idea why policing and control are important. By way of contrast spend some time looking through the posts in the Usenet group rec.woodworking and you'll notice lots of off-topic posts, spam, flame wars, etc.

[Danny Thompson]

I, for one, really appreciate the moderation. Makes this a much more civil, and enjoyable place to be.

Now, about the Spare Parts Swap, the Classifieds are not great for this because I think the idea is that Contributors could keep a running up-to-date inventory of the parts they are willing to, essentially, give away or swap. And other members would have the opportunity to easily browse all inventories, then contact the contributors via PM. The discussion threads do not allow editing/reediting over a long period of time.

This idea doesn't really match up well with a "discussion thread" format; but would match up well with a searchable field attached to our personal profiles.

If the moderators:

1) added a "Spare Parts" field to our personal profiles that would allow us to list our available inventories of spare parts
2) added a search option for these fields (or figured out a way to do this with Google)
3) Posted a sticky on the main page titled "Spare Parts Swap" with instructions on how to search.

Then we would have it. If they wanted to limit updates to this field to contributors only, so be it. All members could search it. This would be a better way to maintain an ongoing list of spare parts than the Classifieds.

This could also be used for other spare parts we have lying around, e.g., miter guage for a TS I have discarded.

Thoughts? Moderators?

[Jim Koepke]

If you only took one trip to the hardware store, you didn't do it right.

Every job always has three trips to the hardware store.

First trip to buy the parts you think you need.

Second trip to buy all the parts you actually need.

Third trip to return all the parts you didn't need.

jim

[Michael Faurot]

This idea doesn't really match up well with a "discussion thread" format; but would match up well with a searchable field attached to our personal profiles.

If the moderators:

1) added a "Spare Parts" field to our personal profiles that would allow us to list our available inventories of spare parts
2) added a search option for these fields (or figured out a way to do this with Google)
3) Posted a sticky on the main page titled "Spare Parts Swap" with instructions on how to search.

I haven't looked at the source for vBulletin (the forum software used by SMC) nor worked with it, so I can't say with authority this is possible or not. But as a system administrator for a lot of other Internet servers and software, what you're asking is probably not easily done. I would strongly suspect that to provide the functionality you're asking for would require modification to the vBulletin source and then require repatching every time a new version, update or security patch came out. For the systems I administer that just would not be allowed to happen due to the amount of time and administrative burden it would create.

How about a simple protocol to be used within the existing classifieds forum? Something along the lines of putting a prefix in the subject like "FB: Stanely Bench Plane Parts" (FB=For Barter) or "SWAP: Goodell Pratt Drill Parts". While not as elaborate as some of the other schemes proposed, it would have the benefit of allowing those that are interested to easily identify "swap" related posts, and those that aren't interested to not have to bother looking at it. It further has the benefit of requiring no modifications to the existing configuration or source of vBulletin. The only thing it would require is an update to whatever rules or FAQ is out there concerning the use of the classifieds forum.

[Richard Niemiec]

If you enjoy the ability to go to the Neaderthal forum (or any of the forums) and only see relevant posts, no spam, no flame wars, etc. then you have an idea why policing and control are important. By way of contrast spend some looking through the posts in the Usenet group rec.woodworking and you'll notice lots of off-topic posts, spam, flame wars, etc.

Michael: Sure, off topic, flames and spam are certainly things that moderated forums address....but I'm talking about a parts swap and not a discussion forum; context is important. Swapping parts is not all that controversial or liability ridden to consider it a problem area requiring special control or policing efforts. Your example of the Wreck is a good one, but that's usenet, and despite having to wade through some chaff, I have learned an awful lot there, and contributed back as well. I don't see such issues in other moderated forums such as woodnet or wood central; in fact many of the same folks who are members here are over on those two sites as well and conduct themselves with courtesy no matter where they post or view; its just that here there seems to be more energy over control and limits that in some cases stifle opportunity for the Creek to distinguish itself (my primary point) and in some cases the convenience for the users (witness the continued debate over not posting links, but that's off topic here), that's all.

It seems that Johnny might get something happening, I'll be looking for it if we don't get it here; but I still have hope that those who make decisions for the Creek are wise men, and as we know, wise men sometimes change their minds.....

RN

[Michael Faurot]

Swapping parts is not all that controversial or liability ridden to consider it a problem area requiring special control or policing efforts.

Not if it were incorporated into the existing classifieds area. There's all ready resources allocated to that. This was in fact the suggestion of Dave Anderson:

As a partial answer to fulfiilling the need, we currently have a Classifieds Forum which is open to members, but where the ads can only be posted by contributors. If you are a contributor, you can post ads for the personal sale, swap, or need for woodworking items.Many of our members and contributors have received some great deals there and helped theri fellow woodworkers unload unwanted or outgrown tools.

Your example of the Wreck is a good one, but that's usenet, and despite having to wade through some chaff, I have learned an awful lot there, and contributed back as well.

Like many analogies they can break down after a fashion. I also have found many useful bits of information in rec.woodworking, but I've had to do the filtering of stuff there for myself. My point, in mentioning rec.woodworking, is just the fact that there is no control there. As such anything goes. At SMC, it is controlled, moderated, filtered, etc. But to do that moderation takes work by people. I appreciate the work being done, so I've made it a point to contribute.

Based on what Dave Anderson has said, "this has the potential of being a lot of work and we are already stretched a good bit of the time." It sounds to me like this swap thing would add more work to the administrative staff. So it seems like if you're going to ask for someone to do more work, you need to be offering them an incentive to do it.

[Richard Niemiec]

It sounds to me like this swap thing would add more work to the administrative staff. So it seems like if you're going to ask for someone to do more work, you need to be offering them an incentive to do it.

Michael: Precisely my point. I don't think all that much control/policing is required for a swap forum, and the incentive is to distinguish this site and its experience for users, e.g., more clicks on the ads......

If the incentive you are suggesting is $6, well, that's another discussion.

RN