The "Quality" v-belt thread

[Douglas Brummett]

let me preface by saying that I am not interested in a link belt as part of this discussion...

Okay, just spent the better part of an hour searching around several forums. There are a lot of instances of users recommending "quality" v-belts or industrial v-belts. Of course nobody recommends brand names or points to retail outlets to obtain these mythical high quality belts.

I recently picked up a Rigid bandsaw. The stock belt (a-980) is terrible, lumpy, and several other indications of its poor quality. I think I could get by with an a38 or a39 belt as an alternative. But the big question is what manufacturer? Any help?

[Greg Cole]

Goodyear or Gates are the first two that pop up in my pea brain....

Greg

[Douglas Brummett]

Thanks, both are readily available in the necessary size. I will go pick up a Gates after work and report back.

[Curt Harms]

The "notched" V belts (AX?) are reputed to be less prone to taking set than smooth V belts. Link belts, with or without pulley upgrades do get awfully good reviews....

[Peter Quinn]

Goodyear VX belts are available in just about every size from Mcmaster Carr, they have a great web site. VX is the V belt with the inside notched, gives you better heat dissipation, less memory on small diameter pulleys, very close to the performance of a link belt. I put them on the shaper and planer, made a noticeable difference on the shaper. You won't get better quality than those.

[Douglas Brummett]

Okay, so the Gates belt is very nice. A world better than the stock FUJU belt that came on the saw. It has no real noticeable zone where it is joined. No flapping or other issues, just smooth turning.

Okay, so Gates and Goodyear are reportedley decent. AX type may be better wrt small pulley and avoiding set during periods of non-use. Any other comments?

[Peter Quinn]

Not sure what your goal is, but if smoother BS performance is your goal, once you have replaced the stock belt with a gates or goodyear, check the pulleys. If the machine doesn't have machined pulleys those may make a difference. Not sure they are as essential at BS speeds as on faster motors but may make a difference. Think good tires, good belts, good pulleys. The whole power train needs to be in good shape to run smooth.

[Douglas Brummett]

Not sure what your goal is, but if smoother BS performance is your goal, once you have replaced the stock belt with a gates or goodyear, check the pulleys. If the machine doesn't have machined pulleys those may make a difference. Not sure they are as essential at BS speeds as on faster motors but may make a difference. Think good tires, good belts, good pulleys. The whole power train needs to be in good shape to run smooth.

My main goal was to get rid of the vibration in my new rigid bandsaw. I bolted the saw and motor to the base, installed the belt, and fired it up. It was almost comical how bad the thing was vibrating and wiggling. The stock belt was warped, twisted, and had a bit of a lump at the joint.

The secondary goal was to put a reference up for other users to find in the future. A little bit of information on quality replacement v-belts.

RANT (may be off topic)
There is a pretty big bandwagon behind link belt upgrades. I don't see it as an upgrade. IIRC they were designed as an emergency replacement until you could get the correct belt. I have a 3/4HP saw and don't want to lose any of my power to belt slip at the pulley interfaces. There are some debates out there. A lot of users swear by link belts. Personally I think that they are overpriced and not a necessity. Higher quality machines than mine have gotten by on v-belts for a long time. If v-belts were the right solution I think that a lot more manufacturers would install them as factory equipment. They may silence your machine, but they are a bandaid solution.

In my case the quality belt fixed about 90% of the vibration. The rest of it was due to cheap/thin construction by the manufacturer. I installed a 3/4" mdf board under the saw and motor, effectively stiffening the top of the stand. Now I am quite happy with the results. There is still runout in the pulleys and wheels of the saw that create some small amount of vibration, but I can live with it.

A link belt may have had similar results. But it also would have come with some compromise. Whether I would ever see the effects of the compromise is open for debate.

[Shawn Walker]

[quote=Douglas Brummett;915727
RANT (may be off topic)
There is a pretty big bandwagon behind link belt upgrades. I don't see it as an upgrade. IIRC they were designed as an emergency replacement until you could get the correct belt. I have a 3/4HP saw and don't want to lose any of my power to belt slip at the pulley interfaces. There are some debates out there. A lot of users swear by link belts. Personally I think that they are overpriced and not a necessity. Higher quality machines than mine have gotten by on v-belts for a long time. If v-belts were the right solution I think that a lot more manufacturers would install them as factory equipment. They may silence your machine, but they are a bandaid solution.
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I may get skewered... But I agree.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Industrial applications ten not to be plagued by crappy belt issues largely because the tension that they employ tends to overwhelm the sorts of problems that are so annoying to the lighter machinery users.

It's all in the bearings. Machinery made for consumers tends to be - - -well - - -not real robust.

However if you can do something like the flat belt pulley systems that you'll find on the finer Euro style machines you will be boatloads happier. . this of course means you'll need new pulleys and tensioners.Flat belts are better because:
1.) they transmit power more efficiently
2.) they thinner and more supple and that lets them operate with less vibration at lower tensions.

As a general proposition flat belts are the best power transmission devices going. They consume less energy than gears or chains and are dramatically lower consumers of power than any V belt. Most V belt systems lose 10% of the motor's power on each pulley.

Technically, the power consumption is less than that in a set up like a contractor's saw because the tension on the pulley is nowhere near the rated tension for the belt in question. But then you get all the attendant problems like vibration and noise and other problems.

Gears and chains are about 5% power consumption. Flat belts can be near zero. Rubber flat belts are about like gears. The lowest power consumption gong is a steel flat belt. Steel flat belt is, bar none, the most efficient and smooth power transmission mechanism going.

[glenn bradley]

I bolted the saw and motor to the base, installed the belt, and fired it up. It was almost comical how bad the thing was vibrating and wiggling.

Bummer. I notice in the reviews of this saw vibration was a problem. One review had to score an "N/A" in the cutting radius category because they couldn't keep the material still enough to cut small circles.

That Ridgid was also tuned up by a bandsaw guru in another article and the results were that there was no difference in the quality of cut between it and the high dollar machine they were comparing to. The point was that if you spend the time you can save some money.

I'm not sure what happened to set you against link belts which are used throughout industry on a daily basis. I'm one of those who has solved vibration, gained power and reduced slippage by using the appropriate link belt.

It gets boring after awhile when so many people report such dramatic improvement when they use something. Don't let that set you against a good thing. I assume better quality v-belts, like the link belts, would improve on the "standard" belt supplied by some manufacturers and this may be the fix you're after. I hope you are able to improve your machine and will keep us informed on what you decide.

[Frank Drew]

Cliff,

Where would you put poly-v belts in your ranking (or is that what you mean by flat belts)? The ones I've used were very smooth running and seemed very efficient.

I replaced the v-belt on my lathe with a link belt because I didn't want to have to pull the spindle next time the belt needed changing; I can't say I noticed an efficiency gain or reduction.

[Douglas Brummett]

I'm not sure what happened to set you against link belts which are used throughout industry on a daily basis. I'm one of those who has solved vibration, gained power and reduced slippage by using the appropriate link belt.

It gets boring after awhile when so many people report such dramatic improvement when they use something. Don't let that set you against a good thing. I assume better quality v-belts, like the link belts, would improve on the "standard" belt supplied by some manufacturers and this may be the fix you're after. I hope you are able to improve your machine and will keep us informed on what you decide.

Nothing really set me against them per say. I would in fact like to try one out at some point, maybe on my drill press. I didn't want to use one on this bandsaw. For the reasons listed above I don't entirely agree that they are the right tool for the job when it comes to long term use. That is just a gut feeling based on internet reading I have done.

WRT my bandsaw, it is running well now. I bought it knowing full and well that it could have vibration and balance issues. I am pleased that a quality belt and a scrap piece of mdf are all that mine required to get vibration in check.

As mentioned earlier, the stock belt was a very poor specimen. I knew before I even installed it that it was going to give me trouble.

Honestly I had hoped to see more suggestions here for brands and vendors of quality v-belts. I guess it is just one of those simple things that I didn't know but has very little online discussion. Obviously if both Gates and Goodyear branded belts are available at most local auto parts stores there is little need to source online stores

[Peter Quinn]

Link belts come in two varieties, the temporary fix on the fly variety and the permanent replacement variety. The expensive Link Belt brand is a permanent solution that you would be hard pressed to break. I don't feel they are worth the price to me so I don't own any.

My PM66 came with three VX, or cogged V belts (cogs are on the inside circumference). These are not cheap belts (gates IIR), though not as expensive as link belts, and they give most of the same performance features that a link belt will minus adjustable length. They also grab the pulleys like a hungry monkey grabs a banana and don't let go, i.e. no slipping. I have replaced most of the belts in my shop with VX belts.

My bandsaw has a flat multi V belt like a serpentine belt on some cars. It works great, though the pulleys must be nearly perfectly aligned or the belt comes flying off. It rides on special machined pulleys, very smooth set up. I have no idea where to get this type of set up after market.

I see the belts like tires on a car, bad tires, bad handling. But once you replace the belts, you need to look at the pulleys. Just like on a car, good tires, bent rims, bad handling. You also have to make sure the the bandsaw wheels are balanced and the tires are good. You would assume the tires are good on a new machine, but then again you would think the belts and pulleys were up to par too, so who knows? Check the power train.

[Harley Reasons]

I've been picking up some vibes about a new Ridgid Bandsaw coming out this year in the 4thQ. Supposedly is it going to correct some of the problems the current model is having. I know we've gotten back a couple and the BORG due to excessive vib