? on Watco Danish Oil

[Ryan Sparreboom]

I picked up a can yesterday and did some test boards on oak with it. It's the tinted stuff, I got Black Walnut. It comes out the color I am looking for. Is there pro's and con's to using this stuff? Should I bother or just go with regular oil based stain. It's for an oak coffee table and will be topcoated with Varathane proffesional clear.

http://www.rustoleum.com/product.asp...t_id=112&SBL=1

[Steve Jenkins]

don't flood it on multiple times. It only takes one coat if you are just using it as a stain. Check it every few minutes and wipe off what seeps back out of the pores. It will continue to do that for quite awhile and if you let it dry before wiping of the spots they are really hard to get off. Make sure it is dry before topcoating. The sniff test is a pretty good way to tell.(does it smell).
Be REALLY CAREFUL with your rags. spread them out to dry. Don't wad them up as watco will sponaneously combust quite readily.

[Pete Clifford]

Danish oil is what Bob Flexner calls a "wiping varnish" i.e a thin oil and varnish mixture. If it is giving you the colour and finish that you want, why would you want to topcoat with a polyurethane?

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Thanks for the tips Steve. That is very helpful info.

Pete, the varnish gives me the color I'm looking for, but I didn't say anything about the finish. It's being used for a coffee table, which will likely see some abuse from kids toys and such. That's why I want a poly topcoat. It is also recommended on the can.

I was hoping for some more experience as to why or why not use this instead of stain? Any other thoughts on this?

[Steve Schoene]

No, danish oil is almost certainly NOT a wiping varnish, and Watco Danish Oil certainly is not. Danish is almost always an oil/varnish mixture, and must be used verydifferently than a wiping varnish. Any excess of the oil/varnish mix must be thoroughly wiped off of the surface and not be allowed to build a film on the surface. If it does build a film, that film will be soft--almost gummy. The Watco is tinted with asphaltum (ie. roofing tar) which turns out to be quite good for the purpose. It's a pigment stain, but is so fine that it acts much like a dye, giving a good clear tint.

Oil varnish mixes are only moderately protective, though much more than a pure oil finish would be. But polyurethane isn't a particularly good choice for a top coat. Traditional resin varnishes look better and are applied more easily. Polurethane varnish (the single part DIY variety) is more abrasion resistant. Thats important for floors, but for furnitue--not so much.

[Pete Clifford]

Thanks, Steve, I stand corrected and you are right. I go my terminology mixed up between "wiping varnish" and oil/varnish blend". As you note, Danish oil is a blend of linseed oil and thinned varnish which must be wiped off after application. By comparison, Watco Wipe-On Poly would be classed as a wiping varnish which builds to a hard finish.

I've used Watco Danish Oil for projects that will not see a lot of surface abrasion/high use eg. wall cabinet for curios. Ryan, as Steve has said, it is only moderately protective.

Hopefully, somebody will chime in on why you should/shouldn't use Danish Oil as a tinting agent under your topcoat.

[Steve Schoene]

It will work fine as a coloring agent under varnish. If you use a waterborne topcoat, give it PLENTY of extra time to cure, or after a normal curing time give it a coat of DEWAXED shellac before using the waterborne material.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

Thanks Steve. I think I'll do another test board with all the proper prep work and application methods that I will use for the project. I will definitely be using an oil based top coat. Likely this stuff:

except probably satin sheen.

Is the extra drying time or shellac, if using a water based topcoat, due to it's tendancy to pull up the color?

[Steve Schoene]

In a way, yes. It's just that the solvent in waterborne finishes, some form of glycol ether, can interact with oil based materials, especially stain, if it's still not sufficiently cured. I may be over cautious, but....

[Scott Holmes]

A coffee table would be better protected with a HARD varnish.

Varathane "Professional" is a marketing term. It's a polyurethane varnish, it is TOUGH, it is not very hard. Try Behlen's Rock Hard varnish (phenolic resin/linseed oil) It's going to be alot more durable than any (DIY) poly.

[Jim Becker]

Scott, it's a trade-off. While I personally do not like anything containing polyurethane, it does have an advantage in the area of abrasion resistance since that was it's original intent as a floor finish. A "harder" finish will look wonderful but scratch easier than the softer top coat. I'd still go with the "harder" finish simply because they look better; clearer, etc., than most products containing polyurethane if I were going to use an oil based finish. They are not necessarily more "durable", however...about the same, in fact. But I use water bornes and/or shellac...

[Ryan Sparreboom]

I think I will stick with the oil based varnish.
Would I see any benefit from still doing a coat of de-waxed shellac between the Watco and the varnish? I don't mean as far as adhesion issues, I mean in color richness or depth?

[Prashun Patel]

Yes, you will see a difference in the color if you use a tinted shellac (like amber). I definitely love that effect; it gives the piece a warm glow.

However, be wary with Watco dark walnut. That product will give your piece a slight 'green' cast. Be sure that you like the effect when you top it with an orangish or reddish shellac. I personally find it to be less complimentary than on a piece that has a brown or reddish or golden brown hue.

That being said, I still washcoated a pine bench I just did with shellac between the Watco DWalnut and the varnish. I like it.

[Mark Patoka]

I use Watco Black Walnut all the time. You do need to watch for the little spots that like to bleed out of the pores and wipe them up while still wet and you do need some type of protective topcoat. I usually let my pieces dry for 2-3 days minimum. I use a brushing lacquer topcoat and do notice the brush picking up a little bit of the stain so I've gone to spraying with a clear shellac first then brush one coat of lacquer.

The attached pic is of a military challenge coin display. They don't get the abuse of a coffee table so the lacquer works for me.

[Ryan Sparreboom]

O.K. Thanks. I'm gonna include some d.w. shellac in my test schedule before I decide. Thanks.