Kitchen Cabinet Finishes... Please help...

[Steven Valentine]

First, let me say that I have stumbled upon a buried treasure in finding this website. There seem to be so many knowledgeable people here, and as a "young" guy, I appreciate you "old" guys sharing your experience and knowledge. JK...

Here's my situation...I have built 26 kitchen cabinets for a buddy of mine. This is the first time that I have tackled a project of any substance, and I'm lost when it comes to finishes. The cases are prefinished birch plywood, with hard maple face frames, mitered door frames, and 1/4" maple plywood door panels. So basically, I am just needing to finish the face frames, doors, and drawer fronts. He has shown me pictures of some of the finishes that he prefers, and so now it falls on me to replicate a production shop look, in my tiny workshop. I have never sprayed so I have no equipment to speak of, save a portable 5 gal. compressor.

Here's the finish...Hard Maple with roughly a "coffee" color (medium brown) with a dark glaze hangup on the mitered door frame and in the corners of the door panel.

So I'm thinking:
1. Some type of pre-stain (for color uniformity).
2. Some type of stain.
3. Some type of sealer.
4. A couple coats of finish.
5. A glaze.
6. However many topcoats of whatever finish I'm using.

Yes, I am that lacking in my knowledge of finishing. What I need is for someone to suggest the products that I need. Please don't be shy about naming specific brands and products, as I really need some specificity here. Some brands that I have heard of are: Sherwin Williams (chemical coatings division), Target Coatings, Fuhr, and I will assume that these finshes have one-up on something from Lowe's such as minwax.

One other note is that I do have a budget for finishing...Around $250 for actual finishing supplies. He had a rather small budget to start with, and my time has been donated, so I need to keep it as inexpensive as I can, and still somehow provide him with a great looking durable finish.

Thanks in advance for all of your help and information thus far.

Steven Valentine

[Steven Valentine]

Anyone out there who can help?

[Steve Schoene]

This is a fairly tall order. The approach you take really hinges on your commitment to obtaining spray equipment, and spending a number of hours spraying cardboard boxes and other samples to get the knack of it. But that's likely to exceed your $250 budget.

So taking it without spray equipment. I would start with a wash coat of no more than 1lb. cut shellac. To much shellac is as bad or worse than too little--practice on good sized pieces of scrap to get as even as application as possible. Mix it from flakes for complete freshness.

Then I would use a powdered water soluble aniline mixed in a concentration that will get just shy of the desired darkness. Test it over shellac wash coat samples to be sure that it is right. Apply the dye liberally, with a sponge getting the surface fully wet, just don't slop it around getting dye onto dry areas you aren't immediately ready to cover. Also be aware that with dye you can't tell what it will look like until a top coat is applied.

I would then use more shellac--this time two coats of 1 lb. or a coat of 2 lb. cut to seal the dye. Do not use a product called sanding sealer even if the store tries to sell it to you. Then I would use a pigment only stain to add a small amount of richness. Gel stains are pigment only. If they are going on too heavily they can be thinned. Don't expect to get much additional darkening from this--be sure excess dye is fully wiped from the surface. After this has well cured you can move on to your top coat. (this could be an optional step)

Then for the top coats. Without spray equipment your best choice is a wipe on varnish. It will take quite a few coats to build a protective film of the sort called for in kitchens. (Expect about 8-10 coats) Waterlox makes a good line of varnishes. You would probably want to apply the last couple of coats with the "Satin" and build the finish with the Original/Sealer, or the gloss. You can apply about 3 coats in a day, without needing to sand between those closely spaced coats. Then the "set" of three must cure overnight, and then be scuff sanded before more coats are applied.

About mid-way in the top coat process will be time for your glaze step. The surface needs to be fully and unambiquously sealed since you will want to be able to wipe off all of the glaze except that which hangs up in the detail. This is best done with a specialy glaze medium which can be custom tinted to the desired shade. The glaze medium generally gives longer working time to get it right. Let the glaze cure and protect it with a few last coats of the top coat.

The faces of 26 cabinets is a lot, and you will have to be methodical to maintain consistency. Make several largish sample boards from start to finish, and let your buddy sign off on the finish. (Do remember to write down the exact schedule as you go so you don't forget what exactly you did.)

[Steven Valentine]

If this helps, I will post a link to the finish that I'm trying to get close to. It is the finish in the picture of the cabinets...the main cabinets that is. You can also click on Camden Cherry Square Coffee to see the look on Cherry, but these cabinets are maple. I just need to get close to this if possible.

http://www.thomasvillecabinetry.com/...nut-Glaze.aspx


Let me make sure I'm understanding your instructions correctly...

1. Apply shellac on sanded wood.
2. Apply a mixed dye (per your instruction) instead of a stain
3. Apply more shellac over this dye as a sealer.
4. Apply several coats (up to three per day) of wiping varnish.
5. Midways through this topcoat regimen, apply glaze.
6. Apply several more coats of wiping varninsh as a final topcoat.

WOW! This is going to be more involved than expected...though I'm still up to the challenge. I really appreciate the info provided and hope that I have gotten the basics down as you have provided them to me.

Some questions...where does one find this dye that you are referring to? I am unfamiliar with this method for staining (as I stated before, I'm pretty green, but am anxious to learn). I can handle the shellac, as I actually have used this product before. Also, what product would you recommend as the wiping varnish? There are so many products and I just want some starting points from someone that has had more experience using these to tell me what works for them. Is there one company that I should use for all of these products, or is it okay to mix and match different products from different companies?

[Billy Dodd]

Steven I'm no professional by any means but if you aren't wanting to get into using spray equipment because of cost you're infor a lot of time and work. As Steve stated before, you can thin dewaxed shellac to a 1 pound cut with denatured alcahol. Use this as a seal coat. That way your dye will come out even. Myself, I use Mohawk products but I have no idea what's in your area. You can order dyes online if no paint stores in your area carry them.

Then I would put on another coat of shellac in a 2 pound cut which is about what you get from the borgs. Then you can go with the darker glaze coat that will match what you are looking for. If you find a Mohawk dealer in your area and are going to get their stain let them know you are going to wipe it on instead of spraying because there is a difference. The wiping in my opinion shows the wood better. Then for a top coat you can go different ways. If you are good with a brush you can apply deft which is a nice self leveling product. or go with a waterbase polycrylic which is also slf leveling.

I like the finish of the deft better then the waterbase but either one would probably be quicker then putting on a wipe on varnish. This is just my 2 cents worth as I stated I'm no where near a professional finisher.

[Steve Schoene]

You can find the dye powders at specialist woodworking stores such as Woodcraft, or a number of places by mail order. Jeff Jewitt sells his brand of dye at www.homesteadfinishing.com. You want the powdered TransFast rather than the liquid concentrate TransTint.

In your step one do make sure the shellac is no heavier than 1 lb. cut--just a very light coat for evenness. You might even to a test board with the dye directly on the bare wood.

Dye turns out to be surprisingly easy to use with only a little practice. Once you have found the right concentration, it is applied liberally with a sponge. On any vertical surfaces work from the bottom up. You can wipe off a drip onto a surface wet with dye with no problems. Wiping off a drop splashed onto a dry surface takes a lot more work.

For wiping varnish, I like several products made by the Waterlox company. Their core varnishes come in three flavors, Satin, Gloss, and Original/Sealer which is a semi-gloss. Kitchen cabinets in tradtional styles are seldom glossier than satin, but it is generally better to apply the first coats in Gloss (which will require some thinning for easiest wiping) or the Original/Sealer which comes thinned for wiping. Then finish with a couple coats of the Satin (which will also require a little sealing).

When applying finishes by hand, I prefer the wiping varnish over a brushing lacquer or a brushed on waterborne finish because it is easier to use I think, and mostly because it will be a much sturdier finish--almost on a par with the conversion varnish used on commercial kitchen cabinets.

[Steven Valentine]

Thanks for the help guys...I really appreciate it. One last question...I have looked at the process that you all have given and am pretty much straightened out on the sealing, staining, and re-sealing steps, but I am still undecided on the topcoats. I have looked at the Waterlox product online, and I think it's a little too pricey (over $100 a gallon) for what I can swing on this job. I'm sure the product is worth it, however I simply need another option.

I have looked at mixing my own wiping varnish by mixing two parts of oil based varnish or poly to three parts mineral spirits. Any concerns about this, or other suggestions for topcoats? Is Deft an acceptable topcoat? I guess I want the most durable finish for the most reasonable amount of time and money. And by reasonable time, I don't mind having to wipe several coats.

So, here's my tentative schedule.
1. Sand wood to 180.
2. Seal maple with 1-pound cut of shellac (Zinsser SealCoat thinned to a 1-pound cut)
3. Stain wood.
4. Seal over stain with a 2-pound cut of shellac (Zinsser SealCoat directly from can)
5. Sand this to 320.

6. Wiping varnish (Homemade) 3 coats.
7. Glaze with ?
8. Wiping varnish (Homemade) 4-5 more coats.

Does this sound reasonable, or am I missing something?

Thanks again for all of this help...

[Steve Schoene]

You can certainly make your own wiping varnish. I'd still want to use a good non-polyurethane varnish as the base. Pratt&Lambert 38 or McCloskey Heirloom (if still on shelves) or Cabot (8000 series) Varnish. You can mix about any ratio you want, but the most commonly recommended is equal parts varnish and thinner, or even somewhat more varnish than thinner.

[Steven Valentine]

Thanks for the info and suggestions...I am going to pick these items up today, and try some samples...

If I'm going for a satin finish, which varnish should I go with, since I'll be diluting it? Satin or Gloss?

[Sal Giambruno]

I'm a newbie, so take the following advice with due caution.

It's advised to use gloss on all intermediate/underlying coats, and satin for the final, if a satin sheen is what you're after. Reason is, the flatteners contained in the other-than-gloss finishes tend to blur, obscure or diffuse the underlying layers/wood grain and they also result in a coat/finish that is less durable (softer?) than if you use a pure gloss coat. You can opt out of using satin altogether by using gloss as the intermediate and final coats, then rub the final coat out to the exact sheen you want.