A finish that I can't seem to remove...

[Dan Friedrichs]

Hello all,

In the processes of renovating a kitchen, we've decided to refinish the existing cabinets. They are all in good condition, and appear to be fairly well-built. I attempted to strip the existing varish off of them with a quality gel stripper, but even after quite some time, nothing came off. I tried sanding to remove the finish, and after some 60 grit paper on my ROS, I appeared to have removed the finish, as lighter dust was appearing. However, once I brushed the dust away and wiped the surface with mineral spirits, it looked exactly like the surface I had not sanded (I mean, ABSOLUTELY identical - as though I had done nothing at all). I should note that I sanded it for quite some time - certainly getting below the top layer. So what's going on here? Are these cabinets oiled or do they somehow have a penetrative finish that I can't remove on the surface? I've attached a picture.

Maybe I should be asking if I even need to strip these - we'd like to make them darker, in a more brown-tone, rather than the orange-tone they are currently. I tried brushing a tinted poly onto them (both on sanded and unsanded areas), and it wouldn't stick at all - in the sanded area, it at least penetrated the grain a little, but wiped right off the rest.

Any ideas?

Thanks much!
Dan

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dan,

Lacquer is quite often used. Have you tried wiping them with lacquer thinner to see if it has an effect?

[Sal Giambruno]

Bump. I'd like to hear some feedback on this one too. I've been thinking about refinishing my kitchen, but the prospect is dreadful just because of the risk of such unknowns.

Maybe you can try a belt sander with 80-grit. That'll remove crustaceans off the hull of a sunken battleship, but it doesn't do too well with curved or small surfaces, is tricky to use, and you would risk cutting right through any veneers . . . on second thought, don't try the belt sander

[Steve Schoene]

Most strippers would make short work of ordinary lacquer. But if these cabinets are fairly new, then they could have been finished with a two-part finish--a conversion varnish or a pure polyurethane (not at all like consumer grade uralkyd poly varnishes.)

The only stripper likely to have a chance is a methylene chloride stripper. Not safe like some of the gel strippers--you need serious ventilation using these.

In any event it will be a long and challenging project. Almost betterr to buy new doors, if your time has any monetary value.

[Scott Holmes]

Another option would be to clean them well and use toner to spray a transparent layer of color then top coat. Toners are usually lacquer based, top coat is a must.

Spraying is the only practical way to proceed when using toners.

[Dan Friedrichs]

Ken, I tried lacquer thinner. And mineral spirits, and acetone, and isopropyl alcohol. No noticable result from any of them.

Sal, I don't have a belt sander, but I did go at the door with 60grit on a ROS for quite some time. Enough time that I could run my fingers over the surface and feel the depression in the area I sanded away. I would guess I took upwards of 1/32" off in one spot.

Steve, the stripper I tried was methylene chloride. Absolutely no result - nothing at all came off with it.

Scott - I'll look into the toner idea. That's one I haven't heard of before.

I'm still awfully curious to find out what this finish is, though - it's apparently the most durable finish ever invented

[Stan Smith]

Some stains are very penetrating. I was trying to refinish dark cabinets once. They were oak and oak ply. It was really hard to get back to the bare wood and I ended up going through the top layer of ply a couple of times. I finally gave up and painted them a cream color. Later was going to put all new drawers and doors on and paint everything an off-white, but we moved instead of spending $30K to remodel the kitchen. Now we have dark cherry cabinets and have decided we like dark after all (no desire to try a refinish job again might have something to do with it)

[Brian Peters]

That's a tough style door to refinish and make it look good. Wwhat will happen is you will end up doing a better job at sanding the flat areas (more accessible) and a poor job at getting at the contours. If you're looking for an even re-stain its going to be hard and you will have to go darker unless you do a good job getting it out. They really don't look to be in bad shape, I wouldn't have tried it, with flat panels maybe not raised panels but that's just me. If they were in really bad shape I would just just dumped the doors, sanded the face frames down and just built/bought out new doors for cabinets if there weren't many. Sometimes the cost to refinish something is equal or comparible to what it costs to get it rebuilt again. (this is assuming this kitchen isn't massive!)

[Stan Smith]

That's good advice, Brian. There are a lot of components to that cost also. I bought a couple of new sanders (belt and ros) and a bunch of belts and disks for the job. Haven't hardly used any of them since and will sell them soon. Looking back, I just wish that I had bought all new doors.

[Howard Acheson]

What paint remover did you use?

I agree with Steve, within the past 10-15 years, commercial cabinet makers have been using much more durable finishes. My new cabinets are finished with a two part polyester finish. Many are finished with two part lacquers. These finishes are almost impervious to any consumer paint remover.