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Thread: Shaper use

  1. #1

    Shaper use

    Hi,
    I've been using my Grizzly 3 hp shaper a lot lately, and I find I like the machine more and more each time I use it. More importantly, previously I've been using my older router bits in it, but I recently have been using a couple cutterheads I picked up with it. What an incredible difference! SOmething about the "whrrrr" of a 3 inch cutter that is pretty awesome. I use a powerfeeder with it, and it's great. My question is to shaper users... do you mostly use cutters, or cutterheads, or big router bits? What is the most cost effective for you?

    Thanks for any help...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
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    11,247
    Hi Dave, I mostly use cutterheads with HSS knives, followed by brazed carbide cutters, then insert cutters. (That's sorted by quantity owned).

    I've used router bits in the shaper, however it's like buying a BMW and running it on old worn out bias ply tires you found at the side of the road. Yes you may have a bunch of them, however they certainly don't perform like a shaper cutter. The advantage of the shaper is optimum cutter geometry, and the ability to take a thick enough chip to cool the tool edge. (about 0.01" to 0.03")

    I normally set my speed/feed rate to produce about 100 cuts per inch for fine work (or as close as is possible with spindle speed and feeder gears). This is adjusted up or down based upon finish requirements and wood machinability.

    Regards, Rod.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Beantown
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    Cost effectiveness is directly tied to individual application. For me it's cost effective to spend several hundred $$ on a good set of cutters. I find the finish is far superior to anything you could buy in router bit form. Additionally I buy 1-1/4" cutters as the increased diameter improves quality over the smaller sized 3/4" bore cutters. But I make a fair amount of doors so the ROI is pretty good. For someone making a dozen doors a year, well probably not such a good investment.
    I think a better analogy might be something like using a 4-1/2" saw blade on a 10" cabinet saw. Sure you could do it, and it may save you a couple dollars, but it's just not a practical idea. The performance benefits of using the larger dia. blade outweigh any cost savings.
    JeffD

  4. #4

    Raised panel cutters question

    Not to hijack the thread, but since we are talking about shapers and cutters.
    For those of you that dont have a power feeder, how do you run your panels thru for making raised panels?? Is the cutter below the wood, or above the wood ??

    I ask, because I was visiting a small cabinet shop the other day and the owner was showing me around. He had a 3 hp shaper and a man was cutting raised panels. As I watched i noticed that he was making his passes with the cutter above the wood. So essentially it was trapped between the table and the cutter. Seems to me that this is a recipe for a kickback of some sort.
    Not to mention that 4 inch diam. cutter being very exposed
    Mission Furniture- My mission is to build more furniture !

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville Pennsylvania
    Posts
    248
    My panel raiser is a 5" diameter with a back cutter, permanently mounted in my shaper until the edge is gone, NO FEEDER. I would like one, or I should say, my helper (brother) would like one but I can't get past the cost.

    Ed

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Brighton, MI
    Posts
    51
    I run 3 Delta shapers for door making, dedicated for task. I have sets of Freeborn stile and rail but they are backup now, have switched to Bryd insert tooling, 3/4 spindle. Panel raisers are braised tooling, Freeborn or other brands and 1&1/4 spindle. I use tangtung whenever possible, but the Bryd heads do not offer this option. I also use corregated 5/16" HSS knive in 2 wing cutterheads, but not as much since I switched over to a W&H moulder - much safer than a shaper. Always use powerfeeds except on cope cuts, and then I'm using a Weaver sled. And I cut stile and rail face down, panels are cut face up, cutter on top. Never had a kickback on panels, even when I've had to hand feed them. When handfeeding, always use guards. Lastly, I didn't get rid of my router table, it comes in handy for small runs of profiles that due to router bit prices and quick setup makes this tool profitable. But I don't run router bits in my shapers, speed is to slow.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
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    11,247
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Tinley View Post
    Not to hijack the thread, but since we are talking about shapers and cutters.
    For those of you that dont have a power feeder, how do you run your panels thru for making raised panels?? Is the cutter below the wood, or above the wood ??

    I ask, because I was visiting a small cabinet shop the other day and the owner was showing me around. He had a 3 hp shaper and a man was cutting raised panels. As I watched i noticed that he was making his passes with the cutter above the wood. So essentially it was trapped between the table and the cutter. Seems to me that this is a recipe for a kickback of some sort.
    Not to mention that 4 inch diam. cutter being very exposed
    Hi, with or without a feeder I run raised panels with the cutter below the table.

    The cutter shouldn't be exposed, a shop made wooden guard will suffice to keep the cutter buried out of fingers way.

    When running a feeder, it becomes the guard.

    Regards, Rod.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix AZ Area
    Posts
    2,505
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Norris View Post
    Hi,
    I've been using my Grizzly 3 hp shaper a lot lately, and I find I like the machine more and more each time I use it. More importantly, previously I've been using my older router bits in it, but I recently have been using a couple cutterheads I picked up with it. What an incredible difference! SOmething about the "whrrrr" of a 3 inch cutter that is pretty awesome. I use a powerfeeder with it, and it's great. My question is to shaper users... do you mostly use cutters, or cutterheads, or big router bits? What is the most cost effective for you?

    Thanks for any help...
    I've used a shaper for 18 years. Added a power feeder 4-5 years ago. I've never used a router bit. I've always assumed the router bit would spin too slowly in the shaper to work well....joe

  9. #9
    ^

    A router bit will work fine. You just need to reduce your feed rate.

    If the RPM of the bit is faster then you can feed faster if slower then the feed needs to slow.


    I just got my new to me G1026 3hp Grizzly shaper. I might pick up some cutters if they are cheap enough. But for a home fix up/hobby I can;t see the need for high cost cutters. Now if you are doing this for a living then yea.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Northwestern Connecticut
    Posts
    7,149
    I use indexed 40MM cutters (Amana), corrugated back steel knives, a Freud PR2000 insert head for panels, and numerous three wing braised cutters. Once you have used a shaper (with a shaper cutter in it) big router bits acting as shaper cutters seem ridiculous. Even 3/4" sets out perform the router in every way for shaping large profiles. For cabinet doors i have some 3/4" bore sets from infinity that didn't cost much more than my router door set but do a whole lot better job. It took me a while to assemble a small selection and I am by no means tooled up yet.

    I like Rod's analogy. I was thinking its like running a dump truck with tires from your kids tricycle. Not cute. Nothing wrong with router tables for shaping, not everyone needs a shaper or has the budget, but if you have one, find a way to get the shaper tooling you need for your work and you won't regret it. Knives for my 40MM head cost less than your average router bit, and spin in a 4 3/8" cutting circle. Its hard to beat indexed heads or corrugated back steel for cost effective, and for some things router bits just won't do the same work at all. I have never even considered spinning a router bit in the shaper. I have a good router table that gets plenty of use for router bits.

    To the panel question, I run the cutter above the work and DO NOT EVER hand feed this way. I don't hand feed panels at all actually, but I'd want the cutter below the work for that one. Its a good idea to make a panel hood for safety and chip collection either way.

  11. #11
    I've made panels with the cutter both above and below the stock. These days I always run them under the stock because a friend had the nastiest kick back I've ever seen with the cutter on top. The door he was working on was thrown 40-50 feet and hit a wall with incredible force. We never did figure out if it was a flaw in the Pecan he was cutting or if he let the stock ride up.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    1,933
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Barlow View Post
    I have sets of Freeborn stile and rail but they are backup now, have switched to Bryd insert tooling, 3/4 spindle.
    How is the quality of the Byrd tooling compared to Freeborn? I have a bunch of shelix heads, but no Byrd shaper tooling. I've got lots of Freeborn brazed and insert heads. I'm thinking of having Byrd make a set of custom cope and stick cutters for me...
    JR

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
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    1,933
    The advantage to running panel cutters above the cut is that you can control the edge thickness regardless of small variations in the panel stock. A back cutter would make this a moot point. For hand feeding you could make a guard/holddown that would shroud the cutter completely. But I, too, use powerfeeders for everything but copes. I've never had a router collet in a shaper, but I do have several router tables. Both have their uses.
    JR

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