Refinishing hardwood floors - What finish??

[John Lubeski]

Hi guys,

Been lurking here for awhile, thought I would post a question and get some opinions. I just bought my first home, its an older home (1942) with hardwood floors that are in need of some TLC. I'm planning on sanding them down this weekend, and can't decide on a finish to use on them afterwards. The two I'm currently considering are 1) Bona X Mega, which is a waterbased polyurethane that seems to be pretty highly recommended from various websites. And 2) Waterlox Original Sealer/Finish, which is a tung oil based varnish, that seems to also have a pretty good following. I'm kind of leaning toward the waterlox, because I simply love the look of a oil finish, it (hopefully) don't have that built up plastic coating look, and if you get any wear on an area you can simply add more to it. What do you guys think? Any other good products? Please help me decide, the weekend is getting close!

Thanks,

John

[Jason Roehl]

John, I've been refinishing hardwood floors for a little while now in addition to my normal painting income. I REALLY like the Bona Mega. But, before I put down any Mega, I like to get down a coat or two of SealCoat (a dewaxed shellac made by Zinsser). Or, you could put down an amber shellac and then the SealCoat for a little more warmth and color. I don't know anything about the other product you mentioned, but I do know this about polyurethanes in their various forms--it's MUCH cheaper and easier to give them a quick screening and recoating a few years down the road BEFORE they wear through. Most people I've seen don't do this--they wait until the finish is totally shot, so everything has to be sanded off and redone (which also reduces the overall life of the floor, they can only be sanded so many times).

Hope this helps (at least a little).

BTW, if you do use the shellac, you'll probably want to be able to open windows--or you'll get drunk; it's alcohol-based. LOTS of fumes quickly.

[Chris Padilla]

I think the dewaxed shellac seal coat sounds like a good idea. ANY waterbourne product will raise the grain of wood--I don't care what the can says. Water raises grain, period.

John, is there any way to get some small cans of sample to try out on some scrap? I gotta believe the poly is significantly more wear resistant than the varnish/oil mix. Varnish alone is tough stuff but as soon as it is mixed with oil, well, it isn't so tough anymore.

To that end, Velvit Oil (varnish/oil mixture) has some good history being used on floors. You might check that out...it is my favorite general finish.

[John Lubeski]

Chris,

I just checked out the Velvit oil on the web, it actually sounds very similar to the Waterlox finish. I can definity get a smaller can of the Waterlox and try it in a closet or something, don't really have an scrap wood that would be similar to the flooring though. If your interested in seeing a little info on the waterlox, there website is www.waterlox.com

Jason,

How many coats of the Mega do you put on after using the shelac? I assume you don't use any of the Bona sealer if you use the shelac, or do you still put that on too?

thanks,

John

[Jason Roehl]

Jason,

How many coats of the Mega do you put on after using the shelac? I assume you don't use any of the Bona sealer if you use the shelac, or do you still put that on too?

thanks,

John

2 coats of the Mega, none of their sealer. If you're REALLY careful about dust control upfront, you may not even have to do any screening in between coats. I've also heard real good things about the Bona Traffic, but have not yet had the opportunity to use it (it is allegedly a step up from the Mega). Just remember, though, your last coat of shellac MUST be dewaxed (SealCoat should be readily available) if you use the shellac/Mega combo.

[John Lubeski]

Jason,

What do you use to apply the shelac and the Mega? A T-bar, lambswool pad, etc??

Thanks again,

John

[Barbara Gill]

John, Velvit Oil is not like Waterlox. Waterlox is more of a surface finish where as Velvit Oil will penetrate the wood leaving a natural feel to the finished product. It resists alcohol and water penetration but as all penetrating oils it is not waterproof. We finished our floors with Velvit Oil about 8 years ago. It has held up magnificently. Ore oak parquet floor was flooded near the front door during a really bad Nor'easter. We mopped the water up and allowed the floor to dry out; you can't even tell where the water was. After 8 years I am thinking about moving the furniture out of the main part of the house and putting down another coat.

[Mike Johnson - Chicago]

Great thing about the Velvit oil is that if you get any scratches, you just put some on a rag and rub it over the scratches...wait 20min and clean, dry, rag off the excess. Unless the scratches are really deep, you won't be able to find them without getting on your hands and knees!

Potential negative...some situations seem to require annual reapplication. Not sure if it's the wood or how the first application was put on. But I think it's akin to how folks feel about Watco Danish oil on furniture...it dulls over time and if your willing to recoat, it looks new again!

2cents,
M.J.

[Tim Greif]

Just finished having my floors redone. My outfit used the Mega and applied four coats. Looks great. My understanding is that Mega is not exactly water based, it's water-bourne. Water bourne finishes cure by absorbing moisture from the air, making them tougher than normal poly finishes. At least that's what I've been told. In any event, I'm extremely happy with the finish. I will have it screened and recoated at probably five year intervals. I waited way too long and had to have the whole thing redone.

[Jason Roehl]

Just finished having my floors redone. My outfit used the Mega and applied four coats. Looks great. My understanding is that Mega is not exactly water based, it's water-bourne. Water bourne finishes cure by absorbing moisture from the air, making them tougher than normal poly finishes. At least that's what I've been told. In any event, I'm extremely happy with the finish. I will have it screened and recoated at probably five year intervals. I waited way too long and had to have the whole thing redone.

Semi-correct. Water-based means that the solids are pretty much water soluble. Waterborne is a finish that contains solids normally only dissolved in a solvent other than water. There are chemical modifiers added to allow to remain in a suspension or emulsion or even sometimes a solution. In the case of Bona Mega, it is called an "oxygen crosslinking polyurethane." I'm not certain, but I believe you are correct in saying that it is moisture cure, but I don't believe that part of the cure process begins until after all the water in the finish has evaporated--allowing oxygen to the solids, THEN the moisture helps cure it. But I'm no chemist.

John, as for application, I spray it whenever I can. But if I have to put it down by hand, both the shellac and the Mega go down pretty well with a stain pad--you know the kind with the sponge backing covered by a mohair nap. Pad the shellac on out of a pan (don't pour it--trust me). The Mega works well if it is poured on and "snowplowed" around. One bonus to padding the shellac on is that it helps pick up any remaining grit/debris (you WILL have some). The shellac you can work into the floor a little. The Mega, you need to pour it on, plow it around, stroking in the direction of the grain, and LEAVE IT ALONE.

[Charles McKinley]

Hi John,

What sander are you going to use? If you can find it in your area you may want to try the U-sand sander. It uses four ROS pads. I plan on using it the next time I do a floor.

Do not waste your time with the vibrating pad type. They are SLOW.

Belt sanders are fast but can gouge if you are not careful.

Good luck and please let us knowhow it turns out.

[Andy Halterman]

John,

Mega makes a fine finish on a floor. I've used oodles of the stuff over the years and it is by far the easiest, most consistent of the water bournes that I have used. You may also wish to check out Bona's DriFast sealer which works quite nicely under Mega. Depending on what look you want, waterlox is a fine finish as well. We tend to use that on antique heart pine and few others. It is a much more subtle look than a urethane. Personally, I like it alot as it is not the same ole, same ole that we do over and over and over and over..........
We currently have a nice heart pine job going that is waterlox. We are using their satin finish for the final coat.

Try samples of them both in an out of the way place and see what you think. Hard to go wrong with either one.

Now, as to this whole "moisture cure" thing, I believe you boys have been fed a bit of misinformation. Moisture cure is a different animal entirely. MC requires moisture in order to cure whereas the emulsion forms the film through evaporation. Simplified to the max but that's the basic jest.

Good luck with your project.

Andy Halterman

A former resident of the next township north (Washington Township) now currently residing in Hendersonville, NC

[John Lubeski]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the great information! I was planning on using a drum sander, as it looks like I need to do quite a bit of sanding on the floors, and I heard the other types are pretty slow. Is the U-sand sander fairly quick operating?

I picked up a 2oz sample packet of the Waterlox yesterday, and hand sanded a small area inside one of my closets and applied it. It didn't really give quite the look I was thinking it would, so I'm thinking I will probably just go with the shellac or Bona sealer/Mega combo. Andy, that was acually one of the reason I was wanting to use it, because it isn't the same old, same old.

Thanks,

John

[Phil Phelps]

John, I had three bids to refinish the oak floors in our new, "old", home this past January. All three are first class floor companies, and all three use Seal Coat and oil based urethane for the finish, applied with a lambs wool pad. There is a reason for this. They all use belt sanders you don't see in the "home centers" rental room. For the hard to get at areas, they use a hand disk sander. My floors were under carpet for forty years and looked really good. But, the first sanding my guys did was diagonaly and with 36 grit paper. Four sandings in all and then the finish. I chose not to stain the white oak. I hope you've done your homework because, this is a major job. It's not rocket science, but knowledge, equipment, and expierence is required. Good luck and, post the pics.