Wiring new shop question

[Jason Thaxton]

This is my first post love the site.
I have a 200 amp service at my house, my shop is about 150 feet away. My service panel is in my finished basement. My meter is on the outside of the house. I would like to have a 100 amp service at the shop and am wondering if I can just connect after the meter or do I have to run a 100amp breaker from my breaker box. the later is the least desirable because It is located in a finished basement on the far wall from my shop. I would like to be able to get service after the meter on the outside of my home. Just wondering if this is possible. Also would you go with a 100 or 200 amp service or is a 200 even possible?

[Chris Padilla]

Jason,

I am NOT qualified to answer this but let me tell you what I have:

I have the main breaker box/meter on the outside wall of my garage (i.e. any Tom, Dick, or Harry could walk up to my house and flip all the breakers off if they so desired). I have 150 A service there (2/0 aluminum wire).

Inside this box exists several breakers but of note to you is a 100 A breaker whose wires meader off inside my garage to another wall where the panel for the house lives. So I have 150 A to my garage and 100 A feeding the house.

Since most of my neighbors have 100 A service, I suspect my outside box was upgraded many years ago (before I bought the house) to service the pool equipment (30 A breaker for that) and A/C (30 A breaker for this).

So, basically, I'm adding in a few more 30 A breakers for some 240 V action along with some 20 A for power tools and 15 A for lights.

Again, I'm NOT qualified to answer this question...just describing what I have at my home.

Edit: BTW, Welcome to SMC...I see you aren't afraid to wade right in!

[Jim Becker]

Since your service is 200 amps already, I believe you "must" come off the main panel with a 100amp breaker for the shop sub-panel. Now, if you upgraded your service entrance to 300 amps, your electrician could install a separate disconnect box with a main breaker in it directly off the meter to supply the shop building separate from the main panel. That's how my setup is since the service enterance upgrade to 400 amps in 2002. I have 200 amps for the house and 200 amps for the outbuilding (more than just a shop eventually) and it's off one meter. (This work was done by a licensed electrician and inspected by the township...the service to the shop building is via underground conduit...)

[Rob Russell]

Jason,

Welcome aboard!

Where is your main service disconnect? IOW, do you have a disconnect between your meter and the panel in your basement, or is the 200 amp breaker in your panel the only disconnect you are aware of if you need to kill power to your house? What is the location of the meter relative to your main breaker panel?

It sounds like you really don't want to mess with the panel in the basement. There is a possibility that you could run a feed to your workshop from the meter base if it allows it. If it doesn't, you might be able to swap the meter/base to provide the double lugs you'd need.

This is definitely something to hire an electrician for. There are all sorts of rule about service feeders, grounding systems, separate buildings and all that good junk. You can probably save yourself some money by doing the grunt work like digging trenches, maybe even helping with conduit/pulling conductors, etc. You don't want to find you're in trouble when you've got the power off to your house.

Rob

[Fred LeBail]

Jason, you have landed in the right spot. Everyone is friendly and we also have an opinion on almost anything.
I ran my shop off a breaker from the 100 amp panel in my basement and had no problem .When I install my Dry kiln I thought I had better seperate the two. I now have two meters going. If I don't have the kiln running the shop Elect bill is @ $ 40/ mth. Unless you are running a lot of 220 stuff your house panel should work.
BUT, I would have a Qualified Elect. check it out. Shouldn't be to pricey for the peace of mind.
Again welcome to the club,
Fred

[Todd Burch]

Welcome Jason.

You can probably call an electric utility provider (we have several to chose from in & around Houston) and have what's called a "general purpose utility service" added. It would be a whole new meter and separate bill from your house bill. And, you could have it run straight to your shop. Got any pictures of that shop?!!

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jason, Welcome!

I've got a new shop being built as I write this. It should be finished next week. I'll be installing the electrical service entry this week while I am waiting for the contractor to get back to the job, next week.

While I have 200 amp service in my house, the box is already nearly full. I elected to run a separate meter and service entry to my shop. After doing a poll here and combined with my experience working in hospitals, I purchased and am installing a 200 amp Square D QO main panel. I'm lucky! I checked with our local power company and because it' s a relatively short run, they'll run my overhead cable without any charges. The only "gotcha" is that they will bill separately and there will be a $8.00 minimun monthly minimum charge whether or not I use any power.

Again..........Welcome!

[Pat Salter]

I don't know if this will answer your question.....but. When I added my shop the only power to the property was inside the house with a 100 amp main. When I got ready, I put a new 200 amp panel on the side of the house. I installed a 100 amp breaker and fed that to the existing house panel. I then put a 70 amp breaker and fed that to the shop. I'm going to add a 30 amp breaker for the spa and I will then be maxed out.
By the way. I did this with a permit and had to get SDGE (San diego gas and electric) to run a new line to the house. They also gave me a new meter. Said the old wireing to the house and the old meter would not have worked. It may be a good idea to call you local power company and see if they can't help. They didn't charge me anything for the new hookup. Also, the county inspectors were VERY helpful. I just told them I was dumb and they believed me! They then told me how to do it (what size wire etc.).

[Paul B. Cresti]

Jason,

I too am not an electrician but here is my three cents from my own experience. When I amoved into my new old house a little over a year ago I converted my garage over to my shop. It is way over on the other side of my house and service entry (in basement 200amp other side of the house). It is about a 95 foot run from main panle to shop. I installed a 125amp snap in breaker (and larger requires a bolt on breaker) and ran Tray cable which consisted of (3) 2/0 wire and 1 #6 ground. this cable is rated for up to 200 amp so allowed for growth. The wire is copper. My suggestion is if you go the route of a sub panel and feeder from your main do not mess with aluminum. It does expand and contract over time. It is much cheaper than copper and many many contractors continually use it but any really good electrician will tell you to use copper. I always believe to err on the side of safety. Most utility companies do use aluminum for service entry cable but they have the equipment to torque down the screws/connectors. Good luck on your decision

[Jason Thaxton]

thanks everyone for the advise. Sounds like I will need to hire a electrician to help me out on this I wired my house when I built it but got help with the main line sounds like I will do the same thing for the shop. I am just in the process of pouring the footings and pad for the shop you can check out the shop at the following link http://www.barnsbarnsbarns.com/noff/pilchuck.html

I am building the larger plan with no room dividers I will span with a beam. My father is a facilities manager for a large defense company. He gets me 20"x 8' pieces of osb for free all I want that is what I will be sheathing the shop with. My neighbor is a contractor and has hundreds of windows that were ordered for custom homes that didn't fit so I have all the windows for free the only thing I will have to buy is the concrete and diminsional lumber. I do construction on the side so I am doing the concrete framing and most of the wiring I am going to try and do a old fashion lime stucco for the exterior all in all it will be a pretty nice shop and most of all wont cost me much. Plus I will finally be able to park in my garage. that will make my wife very happy. I will post pics as soon as I start making a little more progress.

[Chris Padilla]

Where do you live, Jason??



That is a nice cheap shop you have going up there...good for you!

[Jason Thaxton]

Lindon, UT

[Rob Russell]

Sounds like I will need to hire a electrician to help me out on this I wired my house when I built it but got help with the main line sounds like I will do the same thing for the shop.

If you get answers to the questions about the disconnect for your main panel, I'll try to give you some ideas on options to discuss with the electrician.

He gets me 20"x 8' pieces of osb for free all I want that is what I will be sheathing the shop with.

If you're planning to sheath the outside of the barn with strips of OSB, I'd verify with the barn company that they will certify the structure. The 4'x8' sheets of sheathing on the outside of a building are what hold it together and keep it from racking. I'd seriously question whether narrow strips like that would give adequate racking resistance. Maybe, if you use construction adhesive along with nails - but I'd check for sure. You wouldn't be a happy camper to get a loft full of lumber and have the barn start to slide one way because the strips of OSB couldn't prevent the racking.

Rob

[Jason Thaxton]

my main 200 amp breaker is on the ourside of my house right after the meter it has extra room for another breaker. Can I just add a 100 amp and go to my shop from there.

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The construction adhesive is a good idea I will probably do that. The osb is 3/4 inch tong and groove. This is a lot stronger than the required 5/16. I already had a war with the inspector over this he said it would be ok as long as it is properly nailedand I will have to put bracinng in every four feet up the wall. This is a very sore spot for me. Having worked in the construction industry for some time it is the lumber manufacturers who make up all the bs code issue and make it impossible for us to use non standard lumber or techniques. Go tell a inspector you are going to harvest your own beam for header material and he will crap down both legs. Did they build with 4x8 sheet material 50 years ago or micro lam or lvl for headers? I would bet that your house has a more than a few half or less sheets of sheathing if its a newer home. Those homes built in the past will be standing long after my new home is falling apart. I've worked on remodels were they used lath as exterior sheeting. It is not uncommon for old homes in my area to be 100% adobe (fancy name for mud). I originally wanted to build a straw bale shop but code wouldn't allow it. I am very interested in non standard construction methods. All this code is just another example of how we let big business make the rules and set the price they want. The inspector didn't want me to do the lime stucco because it was old technology and he didn't know anything about it. I had to point out that most old lighthouses in the U.S and 500 year old buildings in Europe use this technique. There are cheaper and better methods for construction if we could get big lumber out of the code writing business.

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[Chris Padilla]

Interesting viewpoints, Jason. Thanks for bearing some light on them. I guess it is too much to assume that "codes" are for our own good and that they are just the "right thing to do". However, that said, I'm sure there are plenty of codes/standards that are good but as with anything, some find ways to take advantage in the name of the almighty dollar.