Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: My version of Phil Thein's seperator w/6" duct

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186

    My version of Phil Thein's seperator w/6" duct

    Sorry Phil,
    I did not know... (below)

    OK here is my post from Phil' site

    For starters - I would like the thank Phil Thien for his baffle concept. His work on this idea is what made my version possible. (Thanks Phil!)
    I should of taken more pictures when I created this version, but to be truthful, I was not sure it was going to work.

    As many of you probably have done is read Bill Pentz dust collection site, and after I did, it really scared me. I have a very small basement shop and wanted to put in a cyclone but as you might be, I could not afford the expense nor did I have the ceiling height to install one. Woodworking is a hobby for me.

    After seeing Phils design I wondered if this could be adapted to be used with 6" ducting instead of 4".
    I have a Harbor Freight dust collector with a .5 micron Wynn Environmental filter. Worked great when clean but it plugged quickly and I did not like the material going through the impeller.

    I came to the conclusion I needed a pre-separator and like most who have progressed with dust collection opted for a trash can separator.

    Though they work, they killed the amount of air flow especially with 4" ducting. Well to make a long story short - below is a combination of both Phil's design and Bill Pentz cyclone.

    Made rather inexpensively less than $50.00 for materials (not including the HF dust collector and 6" PVC ducting).
    Made using a 5' -6" metal duct from HD, some threaded rod with wingnuts and a 2' x 4' piece of melamine.

    Here is the first set pics:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Chris Padilla; 12-04-2008 at 4:59 PM. Reason: update
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

  2. #2
    Greg, you have to post it here, too. The Sawmillcreek rules don't allow linking to other forums.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Saint Helens, OR
    Posts
    2,463
    Very interesting. I especially like the idea of placing the impeller on the horizontal plane and nearer the filter. Like the Delta unit. Looks like I'll be adapting your plan. I will try using a smooth walled coupler between the impeller exhaust and filter unit however short that distance may be.

    I too have Phil's separator baffle installed on my Harbor Freight DC. One little thing that I am going to change will be to round over the bottom edge of the baffle. Don't know how much restriction this 90º angle creates but a round over would reduce some restriction. Every little bit helps.

    Thanks for the idea's.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186
    Oh forgot to mention I have emptied it at least 4 times now. Easy to empty as the bar clamp lifts the assembly upward so I can slide the can out from underneath.

    I know there will be some questions and I will try to answer them the best I can.

    I will try to upload some more pics but my batteries died on the camera and of course I don't have any more...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Greg McCallister; 11-29-2008 at 3:21 PM.
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    283
    Greg,

    Very interesting! Something like that would probably serve me well since I have some of the same limitations as you.

    Could you possibly give some more construction details and perhaps photos? I'm not totally clear on how it's constructed and goes together. Also not clear on the bar clamp you're referring to.

    thanks.

    Keith

  6. #6
    Greg - I dig the idea and seems its very effective for you. Nice mods.

    I'm with Keith somewhat tho - I'm kinda lost on parts of it. More info would be fabulous!

  7. #7

    Thank you

    Thanks for that Greg. You left out the part about how well it works though. Inquiring minds want to know...

  8. #8
    That looks very clever, but I'm a little dense this morning and I don't see how it all goes together. Is the separator in the silver sheet metal below the motor and impeller, or is it above the bag inside the green sheet metal, or is there one in both places?

    How much of the dust goes into the can and how much goes into the plastic bag and how much goes into the filter?

    Thanks for trying this I think may have come up with a budget solution which would really work.
    Please consider becoming a contributing member of Sawmill Creek.
    The cost is minimal and the benefits are real. Donate

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186
    Sorry everyone, I have been ill with the flu for the past three days and have not been out of bed.
    I highly suggest you look at Phil Thiens site (Sorry Phil spelled your name wrong on heading) and see my post there as well as how Phil's baffle works.
    The baffle idea actually works great.
    I do not have a cyclone to compare it to but it is a heck of a lot better then the standard setup (single stage) and much better than just a trash can separator alone.
    The easy part is emptying the can. I have done a lot of planing, sawing and sanding with actually no debris in the bottom of the plastic bag.
    I plan on taking some more pictures but right now I am still quite under the weather to take things apart. I will update when I can.
    Last edited by Greg McCallister; 12-06-2008 at 7:08 AM.
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The Hartland of Michigan
    Posts
    7,628
    Nice job Greg.
    Could you increase the resolution a bit higher? Would make it a little easier to see the pics.
    Never, under any circumstances, consume a laxative and sleeping pill, on the same night

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186
    How's this...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186
    and this set...
    I feel a little better today - hopefully I can update and show construction.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Greg McCallister; 12-06-2008 at 7:11 AM.
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Peterson View Post
    Very interesting. I especially like the idea of placing the impeller on the horizontal plane and nearer the filter. Like the Delta unit. Looks like I'll be adapting your plan. I will try using a smooth walled coupler between the impeller exhaust and filter unit however short that distance may be.

    I too have Phil's separator baffle installed on my Harbor Freight DC. One little thing that I am going to change will be to round over the bottom edge of the baffle. Don't know how much restriction this 90º angle creates but a round over would reduce some restriction. Every little bit helps.

    Thanks for the idea's.
    You might try that but for vibration and flexibility - I put in the flex. The two ends are almost butted together and I highly doubt it has much if any effect on the air flow. I am thinking about upsizing to 6" instead of the 5" and actually changing the outlet with the filter all together. I get little to no dust in the bag so it is actually not needed (at least as large).
    I wanted to keep the original unit complete in case I had to upgrade to a cyclone if this did not work (to sell). Right now I see no reason to do so.
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    197
    Greg - impressive homebrew 2 stage! If I understand what I am looking at correctly:
    - You built a "separation chamber" that sits on top of (instead of in) the collection can.
    - It is a "sandwich" of two sheets of particle board (MDF?) with a sheet metal ring.
    - The baffle is in the bottom sheet (you get the whole can for collection - cool!).
    - You feed the intake in horizontally.
    - You use a bar clamp to lift the entire separation chamber (including motor/blower?).

    Does that sound about right?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights Michigan
    Posts
    186
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Babel View Post
    Greg - impressive homebrew 2 stage! If I understand what I am looking at correctly:
    - You built a "separation chamber" that sits on top of (instead of in) the collection can.
    - It is a "sandwich" of two sheets of particle board (MDF?) with a sheet metal ring.
    - The baffle is in the bottom sheet (you get the whole can for collection - cool!).
    - You feed the intake in horizontally.
    - You use a bar clamp to lift the entire separation chamber (including motor/blower?).

    Does that sound about right?
    Carl,
    You got it pretty close but the bar clamp lifts just the cyclone/chamber assembly only - the motor and blower is stationary.
    The sheet metal is three pieces of 6" duct cut to 12" length from a 5' HVAC duct from HD. There are three seams all together that run vertical.
    To take the lock out of the inside of the cylinder I reversed it to go to the outside and soldered inside. Being that the metal was rolled the other way I had to run it over a 2x4 to get it to roll opposite (did that make sense?).
    What that gives us, using Bill Pentz spread sheet for making a cyclone, is an 18" diameter (close to that).
    I cut the 2' x 4' precut piece of melamine (HD) in half creating 2 - 2'x2' pieces.
    I put a 18" diameter grove in the top for the top of the cylinder ring to set into and routed the hole for the 6" PVC.
    The bottom I routed out the outer ring (1/2 round bit) for the trash can to sit into and applied black silicone smoothed out with finger (I think a 20" diameter - recommend to measure your can).
    Then using the same center point routed circle for the outer diameter of the bottom of the cylinder. I used the cut out center for the baffle. I glued and screwed the lower part of the cylinder into the MDF (may work better with a staple gun but I do not have one). Then glued the top and added up and down braces from 2x4s (little over kill actually). I used gorilla glue as it is formulated for both metal and wood (USE GLOVES ). It expanded much more than I thought it would as you can see in the pics. It does not leak but one could probably use caulk but I felt the gorilla glue would create a better bond.
    There is probably an easier way to create this but I did it pretty much on and off during one weekend. (more time spent looking and scratching as I don't write down to much, planned it mostly in my head).
    That isn't all I did but it is pretty much to put it in a nutshell. All in all I have to admit it came out pretty much as I expected and works beyond that.
    Still feeling a bit under the weather today (can type though) but will probably not get to taking more pics today. I will update when I can. Hopefully tomorrow.
    Last edited by Greg McCallister; 12-06-2008 at 2:07 PM. Reason: update
    Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •