The American Auto Industry Story-Funny but sad and true

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The overall costs they foreign makers incur tend to be lower than US makers save maybe for the German and Swiss manufacturers.

However, it is my understanding that their home governments see them ad vital to national security and subsidize them heavily.

I wish the US makers would try a line that was competitive with what I get from BMW. Nothing in the US made lines come close. I mean nothing.

[Ben Rafael]

Kia is opening a site in west point georgia. They will be paying their workers there about $14 per hour plus "typical" benefits. The benefits should cost Kia about another $3 per hour. How in the world can UAW contract automakers compete against this?

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Ben, as a Canadian I don't have any familiarity with whether the Kia wage offer would be considered good, or what typical benefits might be.

Could you elaborate please?

Thanks, Rod.

[Neal Clayton]

gm and ford are a perfect example of why "made in the usa" doesn't mean anything anymore.

they actually sell inferior cars here compared to what they offer under the same brand name in south america and europe in the case of a few models.

i will never own another detriot made vehicle.

That right there,
Is the biggest myth out there. With all do respect, you need to do your homework. We do build fuel efficient cars.

ford replaced the late 80s/early 90s model F250 diesel truck, then made with an international harvester drivetrain that got 20-21 miles a gallon and would easily last 750k to 1 mil miles, with a new engine that gets 13 miles per gallon and is much more delicate, everyone i know who has one has had it in the shop within the first 100k.

and there is still no 6 cylinder diesel option available from any of the detroit manufacturers, unless you live in brazil, there you can get one that's better than the equivalent gas model here. you can't go there and buy one and bring it here without paying a 25% tariff, which was put in place to? ...protect the gasoline pickup truck market in the states from vastly superior offerings from overseas made by toyota, isuzu, etc.

detroit has been utterly defeated by the japanese and euro manufacturers. without that effective ban on truck imports and minivan sales to taxi services, we'd be having this conversation years ago.

why do you think the foreign manufacturers started building plants here? to complete the conquest, and be there to pick up the extra profit when gas prices eventually drove detroit under. that's the only way they get around detroit's truck tariff.

[Ben Rafael]

Hi Ben, as a Canadian I don't have any familiarity with whether the Kia wage offer would be considered good, or what typical benefits might be.

Could you elaborate please?

Thanks, Rod.

Health ins, 1 or 2 wks vacation, 5 to 10 sick days, 401(k) retirement plan.

$14 per hour is awful in California, I do not know if it is good in Georgia. The people in Westpoint seem happy about it though.

[Matt Ocel]

gm and ford are a perfect example of why "made in the usa" doesn't mean anything anymore.

they actually sell inferior cars here compared to what they offer under the same brand name in south america and europe in the case of a few models.

i will never own another detriot made vehicle.



ford replaced the late 80s/early 90s model F250 diesel truck, then made with an international harvester drivetrain that got 20-21 miles a gallon and would easily last 750k to 1 mil miles, with a new engine that gets 13 miles per gallon and is much more delicate, everyone i know who has one has had it in the shop within the first 100k.

and there is still no 6 cylinder diesel option available from any of the detroit manufacturers, unless you live in brazil, there you can get one that's better than the equivalent gas model here. you can't go there and buy one and bring it here without paying a 25% tariff, which was put in place to? ...protect the gasoline pickup truck market in the states from vastly superior offerings from overseas made by toyota, isuzu, etc.

detroit has been utterly defeated by the japanese and euro manufacturers. without that effective ban on truck imports and minivan sales to taxi services, we'd be having this conversation years ago.

why do you think the foreign manufacturers started building plants here? to complete the conquest, and be there to pick up the extra profit when gas prices eventually drove detroit under. that's the only way they get around detroit's truck tariff.

I will respect Dennis Peacock's request.

[Ron Dunn]

What is your definition of "fuel efficiency"?

In Australia we don't consider a vehicle to be fuel efficient until it gets well in excess of 26mpg (US gallons), and popular car sales are petrol vehicles that get around 30mpg (US) and 40pmg for diesel.

Couldn't agree more with the comments about diesel. Great, efficient fuel. I can't wait to see if vehicles like the diesel VW Tiguan sell well in the US, and if diesel-electric hybrids start to take off in urban markets.

[Matt Ocel]

What is your definition of "fuel efficiency"?

In Australia we don't consider a vehicle to be fuel efficient until it gets well in excess of 26mpg (US gallons), and popular car sales are petrol vehicles that get around 30mpg (US) and 40pmg for diesel.

Couldn't agree more with the comments about diesel. Great, efficient fuel. I can't wait to see if vehicles like the diesel VW Tiguan sell well in the US, and if diesel-electric hybrids start to take off in urban markets.

Anyone of these -
http://www.kbb.com/kbb/Research/NewC...FRpknAodsQqPjw

[Ron Dunn]

Matt, there's a difference between how that table measures fuel efficiency, and the method used in the rest of the world.

That table appears to suggest that a fuel efficient vehicle is anything which achieves a HIGHWAY fuel consumption of more than 30mpg. The rest of the world uses an averaging standard, which would rule out most of the vehicles on that table.

Looking for a vehicle we have in common around the world, a Toyota Camry scores very highly on that table. In Australia a Camry is a borderline vehicle for fuel efficiency. Europeans would consider it quite inefficient.

Only Americans believe that average American cars are fuel efficient, which is partly why automotive imports to America (including domestic manufacture of non-American cars) far outweigh your exports.

[Frank Hagan]

Kia is opening a site in west point georgia. They will be paying their workers there about $14 per hour plus "typical" benefits. The benefits should cost Kia about another $3 per hour. How in the world can UAW contract automakers compete against this?

Benefits and taxes will be more than $3 per hour. Usually, you use an adder of 25 to 50% above the wage you pay. The employer's match on social security is $1.05 on $14 per hour (probably more ... I just did 7.5% and I think the rate is something like 7.85%). The health care insurance cost averaged $12,100 per employee in 2007 (for an employee and three dependents), and companies typically pay about 75 - 80% of that; that's $4.65 per hour right there ($12,100 / 2080 hours * .80). You have $5.70 added on, more than a third, with just two of the common benefits American workers have. And that's not including vacation, sick days, employer matching of 401k, worker's compensation contributions, etc.

[Justin Leiwig]

Kia is opening a site in west point georgia. They will be paying their workers there about $14 per hour plus "typical" benefits. The benefits should cost Kia about another $3 per hour. How in the world can UAW contract automakers compete against this?

Easy..Hire people in at $14 an hour. No reason to pay more for an assembly line job. It's not an overly skilled job assembling vehicles. The Japanese have a term for their auto assembly. It is Pakyoke or something to that effect and means idiot proof. They set up their line so things only go in one way or asssemble one way. So easy...a cave man could do it

There is no reason a guy should be paid $32 bucks an hour to screw a dash into a car for 8 hours a day at a GM plant. They don't have a right to have it better than anyone else trying to make a buck. For too long they had it too good. Strike when they wanted more and more and more. I can't tell you how many times the local plants around here threatened to strike...and as of Dec 23 it will be shut down. It's Karma coming back to bite them in the butt if you ask me.

Around here $14 is pretty darn good for not having anything but a high school diploma starting out in the job world. Then again..here in Ohio houses don't cost $100 sq ft like they do out your way.

[Matt Ocel]

Matt, there's a difference between how that table measures fuel efficiency, and the method used in the rest of the world.

That table appears to suggest that a fuel efficient vehicle is anything which achieves a HIGHWAY fuel consumption of more than 30mpg. The rest of the world uses an averaging standard, which would rule out most of the vehicles on that table.

Looking for a vehicle we have in common around the world, a Toyota Camry scores very highly on that table. In Australia a Camry is a borderline vehicle for fuel efficiency. Europeans would consider it quite inefficient.

Only Americans believe that average American cars are fuel efficient, which is partly why automotive imports to America (including domestic manufacture of non-American cars) far outweigh your exports.

Hmmm -
A Toyota Camry "borderline" and "Quite" inefficient?

[Ron Dunn]

That's what I mean, Matt ... different perceptions of fuel efficiency.

[Neal Clayton]

Hmmm -
A Toyota Camry "borderline" and "Quite" inefficient?

see the top gear episode where they got 40mpg out of an audi sports car as an example.

i have a mercedes e class which gets 36. without all of the extra electronics and the huge alternator that they require, it would probably be 38-40.

these are not compact economy cars.

ford in fact sells a 4 cylinder diesel focus in the UK that gets above 50.

turbo charged diesels represent an immediate 10% reduction in fossil fuel use assuming you make it all from fossil oil. when you supplement it with vegetable oils, the gap widens considerably.

that's the solution that the europeans have created for their fuel shortage problems, and the solution that detroit and houston have paid washington to keep the US public unaware of.

like i said, if not for detroit's socialistic 25% tariff on trucks, we'd all have had this discussion years ago, and would all be driving to the lumberyard in a toyota hilux.

[Dave Lehnert]

I own a 1997 Ford F150 with 75,000 miles and the engine blew up this week. $4,000 to fix. Has always been well maintained. Known problem but Ford did nothing about it.
I have a relative that had a Toyota with 310,000 miles when he sold it on e-bay for $2,000.
Now I (we taxpayers) will have to bail out that very company so they can continue to make cars.

Do I need to say what I am thinking my next purchase will be??