advice on signs

[Michael James Smith]

I have a request for 2 4ft x 8ft double sided signs. The customers want plastic lettering to adhere to the plywood signs. The signs will be outdoors and will need to hold up to
weathering. My first question is has anyone done this and what is the best adhesive to use for gluing plastic to wood in external conditions? My second question is what would be the best material to use for the lettering. The customers want forest green lettering and I noticed rowmark makes a black forest green ada substrate. Does anyone know how this would hold up to sunlight and weathering, or would 1/8 inch acrylic be a better choice? What would a sign shop charge for similar vinal lettering and could I give the customer a better sign by using plastic. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Scott Shepherd]

I wouldn't use acrylic. Too much expansion and contractor with temperature to be glued to something (in my opinion). If anything, probably a PVC based material.

[Mark Winlund]

Hi... the obvious solution to this is use a vinyl cutter. They are not expensive anymore, and will create what you need in a hurry. A laser engraver is not really suitable for this job. I would not advise cutting vinyl in your laser machine due to the long term corrosive effects.

Mark

[Joe Pelonio]

I have installed many acrylic letters in outdoor situations and they have lasted many years, both natural colors and painted. The key is to use 100% silicone adhesive to attach. When installed on the bench just apply a bead in the center of the letters and press firmly. It will allow for any contarction or expansion from the weather. When installing in the field, like on a wall, I use 3M VHB double sided foam tape, 2-3 squares to hold it in place while the silicone sets up.

When dealing with plywood as the background always use MDO, so you don't get checking. Also, make sure to use a good paint, seal any voids in the edges before painting, and make sure the paint is totally dry before gluing
on the letters. For black or white I like the oil based Rustoleum, gives a good gloss finish and cheaper than sign specialty paints like one-shot.

Vinyl lettering is a good alternative, but less profit for you and not the same look as 1/4" or even 1/8" acrylic.

[Doug Griffith]

I would sand or scrape away the paint from the plywood where the glue is applied. This will remove a variable where the glue may not stick to the paint or react with the paint and cause it to peel from the wood. I would try to mechanically fasten the letters if it's an option.

Cheers,
Doug

[Scott Shepherd]

Sorry about that, Joe's the one with the knowledge. I'm right in the middle of a 1/2" thick acrylic lettering job for inside and after all the "incidents" I've had with them already, I wouldn't dream of putting them in a temperature changing environment, but that's obviously not what was being asked. Sorry, my brain is stuck in this job at the moment.

Thinner stuff I have seen loads of acrylic. I see it on strip mall signs all the time. Something like 1/8" or 3/16" and large letters.

(Just don't use thick letters with sharp corners all over the font- trust me....)

[Larry Bratton]

Acrylic outside is a definite YES. I do all the time. Joe is right on the adhesive, be sure you get silicone ADHESIVE and not Sealant. PVC is a also a good choice BUT..DO NOT cut in the laser. It might be your last job with it. I don't happen to believe that kiss cutting vinyl is harmful. I do it in small quantity with no ill effects. You can also look for polyester based films. I cut a good bit of reflective film made by Tape Technologies(acrylic based) and it works well.
Mark is right too, but if you don't have a plotter, then you could maybe find someone with one and get them to cut for you, but their is a learning curve to vinyl application and it ain't as easy as it sounds. (Unless your an old pro like Joe or Mark). I personally hate the stuff. Good luck.
PS. You might use MDO plywood for your substrate which is slick and doesn't require a lot of prep, also works well outside.

[Michael James Smith]

Thanks for all of the advice guys, I don't yet have a plotter for vinyl and my customers
don't want to go to the competion for their signs, and they also want the look of the plastic signs. Both will be business signs built for longevity not the cheapest price.
Fasteners would be alright if they weren't visible. Has any one had success painting
acrylic with out it peeling and flaking off?

[Joe Pelonio]

Thanks for all of the advice guys, I don't yet have a plotter for vinyl and my customers
don't want to go to the competion for their signs, and they also want the look of the plastic signs. Both will be business signs built for longevity not the cheapest price.
Fasteners would be alright if they weren't visible. Has any one had success painting
acrylic with out it peeling and flaking off?

Yes, using an Krylon Fusion primer then any paint, even latex, or using Krylon
Fusion if the color is acceptable. No complaints yet with some outside 2-3 years.

[Larry Bratton]

Doug:
Mechanical fastening is not a real good idea with acrylic. As Scott has said, it does have some issues with heat. If you fasten it down, I have seen it bow and buckle and do weird stuff. If you use a silicone adhesive, then it can expand and contract as conditions change. I fastened some black decorative borders to wood with some small nails once. We were selling the items outside. That afternoon when the sun hit that black plastic, it looked like a bow you could shoot an arrow with. (needless to say, we had to "pull em off the market") QUICK! Their are exceptions to everything, but I haven't done that again.