Personal Responsibility

[Mitchell Andrus]

Originally Posted by Belinda Williamson

Mitchell, your negativity never ceases to amaze me.

Don't take my comments personally, they aren't about you. If you find this sort of thing influential and of benefit or just plain entertaining, that's OK. I'm not judging you, I just find that the clip you posted is incredibly irritating. I don't like Jay Leno, so it isn't a female-thing either.

The reason she has 9 video clips on YouTube is to advertise her sales site. Her site isn't a self-help site, it's a shopping cart. She's in it for the money, so let's see the clip for what it is. A sales tease. You posted an advertisement. It begins with the website's address in big bold letters. Yes, I'm negative when I see this sort of thing, not because you posted it, but I now know it's just an ad.

I don't mind that you posted it. The following responds to your 'negative' comment. Yes, I'm naturally negative in many situations, here's why:

Self-help bookshelf fodder. I read a few when I was young and impressionable. They all say the same thing. Really, they do. There are only a few ways to say "do the right thing and the money will follow", "be responsible for your own actions", and "do unto others...". There was a book in the 70's telling women to be responsible for their own sexual satisfaction. We needed to have someone make money selling a book like that? And, the money came from the same audience she's supposedly seeing as victims of a male-dominated society.

Tell people they have a problem and sell them the solution. Snake oil.

YES, I'm negative about this sort of stuff.... MANY, MANY things in fact. If more people looked at the 'stuff' that's thrown at us every day in a negative light first we'd likely all be better off and our landfills would be less full. I'm critical (negative) of everything until I decide it's good for me. That's not selfish, it's self protective.

That's not a bad thing. I seek to protect my self from making bad decisions by making critical judgments at the start, not after I've had my wallet picked by a make me feel good - now buy my book lecturer who will stop lecturing when they can retire on the backs of those they 'helped'. I get less buyer's remorse that way.
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[Tim Morton]

The problem Mitchel is belinda was sharing the "message"....not the messenger or the genre"...and you jumped into a conversation and trashed something that had NOTHING to do with the message....or the messenger...but the genre.

[Bob Borzelleri]

Perhaps part of what might be going on here is the notion that the message and the messenger are one and the same. Anybody remember Marshall McLuhan?

In this case the medium could come across to some as the message.

Here's why I think Mitchell might have a valid point. There's a hypnotic technique that's very commonly used to induce a trace. It starts with the practitioner stating a series of positive affirmations that are very difficult for virtually anyone to resist or take issue with. An example might be something like, "when you were very young, the love of your parents was important to you", or "learning to read was difficult at first but one day words began to reveal themselves on the page".

If enough of these positive affirmations are offered and not resisted, then the probability of a successful trance induction is improved considerably. An important aspect of this process is the element of trust that can be enhanced by the subject constantly hearing things that they can relate to.

This concept (as well as many other aspects of influence) are part of a body of literature that has become required reading for the self help market providers. While the techniques of the self help market providers are often less sophisticated and not necessarily grounded in the sort of background and training of a professional hypnotic therapist, for one example; the dynamic that is being sought by the seller of self help services to connect with potential customers is similar to that which the hypnotic therapist utilizes in gaining trust and relaxation that is necessary for a successful trance induction.

This dynamic plays out in the self help market in the form of things (books, DVDs, posters and the like) that people can naturally relate to and which offer a sense on connection with whomever offers the words, images or concepts. The fact that much of what is being offered in these media are often repackaging of common sense statements or concepts is frequently lost in the glitz and hope of a life changing experience. One example of the simple concepts that lie behind the books, DVDs, tapes, posters and late night cable TV infomercials might be my new weight loss book. It has two chapters and each chapter contains one sentence; Chapter 1 --- Eat Less, Chapter 2 --- Exercise more. Or for $39.95, I can add 300 pages of things that everyone who has fought to lose weight can identify and relate with to the book (and be on the lookout for my new iPhone weight loss program).

The self help medium exists because it makes a lot of money for people who never have to demonstrate or back up the value that is promised, whether directly or indirectly. It's not surprising to me that Mitchell finds fault with this.

Your Mileage Might Vary.

[Greg Peterson]

Belinda - Thank you for sharing the link. I was skeptical, but I watched it long enough to pickup the cadence of the speaker and her message. No one made me look at it. I choose to of my own free will.

I understand you meant for this video to be an affirming and positive experience. I appreciate this fact and it speaks well of your character.


Mitchell and Bob - I agree with you. I can not add anything relevance to what either of you have said nor if I could, would not be as eloquent.

[Dennis Peacock]

I like her message. It's just plain common sense that many of us were taught many years ago when we were young.

[Belinda Williamson]

First, thanks for all your responses. I can always depend on Creekers to make me think.

Now I have to admit to a bit of confusion and I'm sure one, or all, of you will enlighten me as quickly as your fingers can type. A little background first. I've never read a self help book, or attended a seminar, or watched a video that I understood to be related to self help. I like me just the way I am (not everyone does, but I do and that's what counts). Wait, I take that back. I read the Tao of Pooh, and the Te of Piglet, so those might count. I'm a big Pooh fan, so sue me. Now for the confusion . . . I fail to see how the video I linked to can be considered self help. I saw it as a message to a society in which many have forgotten the art of simple civility. I saw it as a message to step up and take responsibility for yourself and your actions. I can't blame this on being blond because about two weeks ago I decided that I wanted to be brunette for the first time in my life. I dyed up! I don't really like the color on me, but I made the decision, committed the act, and I have to live with it. I suppose I could blame Lady Clairol (or whoever manufactured the dye) but that would just be silly because I have to accept the responsibility for dyeing up.

This, my friends, was the only message I ever intended to share. I don't know anything about the messenger. I have no idea if she makes money, or if Billy Mayes made money, or if the Sham-Wow guy makes money, and I really don't care. If there are enough people out there buying the product, or the snake oil, or the philosophy, to support the seller then good for them. That's the American way. Build a better mousetrap -or at least convince the masses that you have - and make a fortune.

[David G Baker]

"I dyed up" No photos, didn't happen"

[Keith Outten]

Hey Belinda!

I watched the video and I heard the same thing from my Dad at least a thousand times as I was growing up. It is basically good old common sense in my neck of the woods, I didn't hear anything that I felt wasn't good advice...that my parents gave me for free.

I'm real glad I didn't have Mitchell's attitude growing up, my Dad would not have taken it well
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[Neal Clayton]

Originally Posted by Mitchell Andrus

Yea, she's another Tim Robbins, "Every man dies. Not every man lives.", or Tom Peters, "Excellent firms don't believe in excellence - only in constant improvement and constant change"....

Every time the economy tanks a bunch of these motivational types finds a catch phrase or "hook".... catch up, step up, straighten up, move up, listen up. sit up - YIKES!!! Shut up!!.... They run this stuff into the ground while selling tons of CD's DVD's books that sit and collect dust......

Kimberly Alyn spoke at my son's college a few months ago. Her T-shirts, CD's and stuff was for sale in the lobby (and on her web site) After the break, she pumped sales for her merchandise so hard about 1/3 of the audience had left by the time she was done. One of her CD's is titled "How to deal with annoying people". Ironic.

To be fair, she is talented and got her start in a serious way and is entertaining while making people think outside the box.

Funny how she preaches personal responsibility yet sells junk to those most vulnerable to outside influence. Incredible.

Richard Simmons will be by soon with boxed sets of diet cards, in time for Christmas.

No money down anyone??? They'll be here by next Fall.
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my personal favorite is that Suze Orman person. who preaches such gems of financial wisdom as "look for forgotten money in the laundry" to the unsuspecting housewives she peddles her books to on Oprah.

funny she doesn't preach her own financial success methods, like selling fraudulent insurance policies, and rob your own employees of their commissions.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Bob, well said. To your point:

I find it infuriating when a salesman says something you can't say no to in order to get you on the 'yes' train. "You know you need life insurance to protect your family.<yes> And more insurance is better than not enough". <yes>......

Same with anyone, self-help or otherwise, selling a book filled with stuff we already know: When you see injustice, speak up. When you make an appointment, show up...... to hear more stuff you will agree with, buy my book. Never heard it described a hypnosis. Group or peer pressure, yes.

Empty slogans that regurgitate what we already know and agree with. Eat less, exercise more. Buy my book. They never tell you to save money by not buying books and CD's, do they?


Just wondering... we've nearly all posted a website for a new product or sale priced item that might be of interest to fellow woodworkers. I think that's a proper use of the forum. I can't post my own commercial website (not even in the sig line) 'cause I'm a member or contributor and I have absolutely no problem with that.

Where is the line drawn on posting a link to products that are for profit having nothing to do with woodworking? Just curious. Seems a non-contributor has a better shot at commercial exposure here than the contributors do.
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[Mitchell Andrus]

Originally Posted by Keith Outten

I'm real glad I didn't have Mitchell's attitude growing up, my Dad would not have taken it well
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I didn't always have this attitude. I learned it. You know the old saying "Fool me once....". I've learned we need to pull back the curtain and look at the wizard - good and hard. Listen to the message without the glitz and glamour. Jim Jones had a message too, and knew just how to deliver it.
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[Scott Shepherd]

Nothing wrong with self help people, in my opinion. Not everyone had a good upbringing and many millions and millions of people just were never taught the most basic things in life. Many kids grow up never knowing what support is or what setting goals and working towards them is all about. In those cases, if no one ever taught them, how are they supposed to learn? Got to learn from somewhere. If you learned it from your parents or grandparents, that's great, but not everyone had good advice growing up. That's something that's critical to understand before condemning self help as a waste of money. Might be for you, because you already learned and lived it. Not so much a waste for those that never got taught.

You probably wouldn't buy a beginners woodworking book or video, but to someone that's never been taught woodworking and they don't know anyone that has woodworking experience, that video is great for them. Kinda like a woodworking forum.......you come to gain knowledge you don't have....you pay for that knowledge........humm.....so by paying for that knowledge, are you doing "Woodworking self help"?

My issue isn't with self help, it's more with telling me how to become a millionaire by buying your $400 package that teaches me to buy and sell homes with no money down type stuff.