laser cut chandelier

[Doug Griffith]

Hi All,
My girlfriend and I have just been given an opportunity to create a VERY large chandelier for a friend. He is doing great in this economy so money isn't an issue. It needs to be approximately 25 feet tall. Starting at 5 feet wide by 1 foot thick and tapering to a point. It drops down the center of a 3 story spiral staircase. I won't have problems designing such a beast but my issue is with lighting. The plan is to use edge lit acrylic and illuminate with fiber optics. Has anybody done anything where a fiber optic cable is fed into the edge of acrylic? I'm sure I'll have to support the weight of each piece with stainless cable so the weight won't be on the fiber optics.

Anybody's experience, sources, or advice would be helpful.

Thanks,
Doug

[Rodne Gold]

That sounds like a project I would love to tackle , something serious , utilitarian and a design/artistic/technical challenge.
Dunno much about the fibre optics , I would imagine that drilling a small hole and putting the end of the fibre optic into it would light the pex , however to get it to "glow" one would have to etch or engrave the pieces in some way otherwise the pex will also just transmit.
Are you talking about the flourescent perspex when you are talking "edge lit acrylic"?
That stuff is dreadful in terms of "colours" , the colours that really edge glow well are seriously funky and a bit garish (like the yellow or orange or the flourescent green) and the more muted colours like the light blue , glass green dont have heavily "glowing" edges.
If it were me , I would design with the more neutral colours to stop the thing looking seriously dated 5 yrs down the line, unless of course the client wants that "funky" look.
There are some other perspexes you can use as well , like the radiant from degussa (rainbow coatings) or some of their other lighting application pexes.

Anyway , as I said , it sounds like a wonderful project and it lends itself to a "tutorial" here , IE you documenting it from start to finish and showing us how it's going.

[Doug Griffith]

Yes it is an awesome project! I looked at the space today. The spiral staircase is half surrounded by windows from the top to the bottom. The staircase alone cost $350k.

I plan on an upscale mid-century-modern design with a space-age twist that is subtly lit with the optics. Nothing garish. I'm thinking about the clear with subtle blue edges. I might make a miniature version to confirm it "hangs" correctly. I also think I need to get decent sized samples of the different acrylics, some cable, and an illuminator to figure out what works best.

I will definitely document the whole process.

Cheers,
Doug

[David Fairfield]

Hi Doug

I'm really interested to see more as you make progress. Also very interested in how you solve the technical issues.

For my miniature work, I've been experimenting with fiber optic and LED illuminated plexiglass. The problem I've encountered with fiber optics is the pin-point nature of the light beam at the end of the strand. Relatively speaking, it doesn't project a lot of light, and its very directional in nature-- unless you're looking at it straight on, the light is barely perceptable.

You may need to bundle several strands together, or get a thick strand to get the light you need to your acrylic piece. In that case it will quickly add up to a massive bundle at the light source. Then you'd also need to consider a housing for your light projector and probably a cooling system for it. The electricals might get large.

I'd consider an LED embedded into each of your acrylic "crystals" connecting to a central bus wire. They have a very long life span that you can think about them in a "permanent" sort of way.

Anyway, good luck with this project. I'm sure a lot of laser operators dream of this sort of thing. I'm bookmarking this thread, very interested to see more.

Dave

[Dan Hintz]

Doug/Dave,

I can post some helpful hints here when I get back from a "grocery run" I need to make, but I have to head out at the moment...

[AL Ursich]

I like placing a LED in each piece.... The weight of the wire and of fiber optic is about the same.... That would be a fun project....

AL

[Rodne Gold]

So its an elongated arrow head tapering from 5 ft to a point and from 1 ft thick to a point
25 ft long...
Its probably going to be real heavy?
What are your plans re this whole thing right now?
1000's of hanging leaf type things? Geometric shapes? solid slabs?
whats the house like , modern , palatial , open plan?

[Doug Griffith]

Originally Posted by Rodne Gold

So its an elongated arrow head tapering from 5 ft to a point and from 1 ft thick to a point
25 ft long...
Its probably going to be real heavy?
What are your plans re this whole thing right now?
1000's of hanging leaf type things? Geometric shapes? solid slabs?
whats the house like , modern , palatial , open plan?

Hi Rodne,
That's the size. The design is up to us to present to the client. The area it's going to hang from has been rated at 1500 pounds and I'm pretty sure I can keep it under that. It'll be close though. Especially if I have a stainless structure built. I'm thinking of a tubular spiral that tapers down. Then I can use it to distribute the weight and run the cables.

The house is contemporary modern. It's a half round cylinder shape on the side of a hill. All 3 stories are are glass windows that face outwards over the city. Jacuzzi on the roof. Pretty much a swinging bachelor pad for a guy with money.

My plan right now is to figure out the budget and then present a few options that fall within it. Depending on the general design chosen, I'll then do a bunch of sourcing. Once I know the parameters of whats available, I'll work with my girlfriend on the design comps. Then we can make an artistic presentation of what can actually be manufactured.

So far, my hurdle appears to be the mounting point of the cable/wiring to the acrylic. Most of what I have found is industrial in appearance. I may have to have small castings made that do what I need.

Cheers,
Doug

[Alexa Ristow]

Hi Doug,

We have been playing with LED's of late and the range of colors and ratings available is vast.

1. 3 Watt high power LED's powered by a Buck Puck. Unbelievable lighting power from the smallest of sources. Will blast light right down a length of Acrylic and still provide actual usefull light from the opposite edge!!!
2. SMD strips, RGB with controlers. This option will allow you to tape the strip along
the top edge of a sheet and hide it behind a decorative cover such as pewter or copper. RGB LED's can be adjusted across the whole specrum of colors and intensities and will allow you to do both dimming and mood lighting.


Lasers, Acrylic and LED's are a perfect combination!!

Cheers,

Alexa

[Steve Clarkson]

Alexa, would love to see some of your LED work.

[Randy Walker]

Hi Doug
I don't know much about this stuff but it sounds like if you used "led's" some computer controls and a music innerface you could make it something like a 21st century disco ball on steroids.

Just a thought
Randy Walker

[Dan Hintz]

Looks like I forgot to come back to this thread after my grocery run... sorry about that, Doug. I'm at work, so this post won't be too long, either.

First, be careful with using the high-power LEDs... the small 1.5" diameter boards they typically come on are meant to be attached to another heatsink, not run alone, so heat will quickly destroy the die if you run them at rated current without one. Not to mention the serious amount of power you'll be shipping down the stalk of such a beast to handle all of those individual LEDs (unless you ran multiple LEDs in series to raise the voltage, but that increase wiring issues).

In this case, I would go with Doug's original thought to use FO, but that does not mean he can't use LEDs. For heavy amount's of light, a metal halide projector is the typical lighting unit for FO. It may even be wise to combine the two methods... MH for the main room illumination through the FO, and LED for illumination of each panel through separate fibers. Bother the MH projector and the LEDs would be housed above the chandelier and out of site.

Use a good quality glass fiber (not plastic) to cut down on loss through the sides, and be prepared to jacket the FO if side loss is too visible when a large number of bundles are combined. Drill a hole in each panel slightly larger than the FO, insert the FO, and fill with a refractive index matching epoxy. This may create a hotspot along the center of the panel, leaving the upper corners unlit. If total illumination of the panel is required, put a FO cable into both upper corners at a 45 degree angle. As mentioned previously, you do not want to support the weight of the panel with the fiber... if there are any sharp bend, a lot of light can be lost at the bend.




David,

Run the tip of your FO through a flame to mushroom the end, in effect creating a spreading lens. This also applies to Doug if the panels themselves don't spread enough of the light.

[Dan Hintz]

I have to add, I'm reallllly jealous, Doug... as Rodney said, I'd love the opportunity to work on such a project. I have a lot of cool ideas (well, at least to me) swimming around in my head, but no one to pay for them If you need any help on this one, I'm only a plane ride away, and my consultation fees are quite reasonable

[Scott Shepherd]

Originally Posted by Dan Hintz

I'm only a plane ride away,

I've seen your car, you'll be there by lunch time

[Doug Griffith]

Thanks for the info Dan. I looked at the site yesterday and another issue I have is the MH projector location. They get very hot and need adequate space for ventilation. The only space I can possibly put it is over 20 feet away as the FO cable would be routed. And then it would require some serious hacking through the structure which is an all steel construction. And that is at least 30 feet up in a precarious spot. There is a lot more to it than just laser cutting pretty shapes out of acrylic and hanging from cables. This is more of an engineering project.

I'm also looking into light tape. I might be able to get a custom run manufactured that will adhere to the edge of the acrylic. Once again, wiring and attachment points are going to be an issue.

Right now I am waiting for the achitectural plans of the house. They will help me determine if FO cable routing is possible. I'm also contemplating creating a rough 3D model of the stairwell. It will help to visualize during the design stage.

One more thing that is interesting. The house can currently be seen from a freeway about 3 miles away. An illuminated chandelier of this size will definitely "pop".

Cheers,
Doug