Winters coming soon..

[Michael Mills]

Hello all,
Cold weather is coming and my shop is unheated. I have been using a kerosene heater (no blower) but the rafters are open all the heat goes straight up. I am thinking of lining the rafters with house wrap in about a 10X10 area at the lathe. If I’m in the shop and not using the lathe I deserve to be cold, right?
Anyway I have some lengths of 20’ conduit and a bender. My idea is to bend one to about 10’x10’, mount sections of 2x4 to the walls with holes drilled to accept the ends of the conduit and place a hanger at the center of the bend. Then I would use shower curtain clips to hang tarps that would be easy to open or close. My lathe is in a corner of the shop and the conduit would be mounted as close as possible to my "ceiling".

I’m sure this has been done before. How has it worked out for you?
Do you have other options to suggest?
I have a couple of months before it starts to really get cold.
Thanks,
Mike

[Dick Sowa]

Several thoughts...

I also use a kerosene heater in my shop, but I would be seriously afraid of getting it too close to combustible shower curtains. Or worse, piles of turning shavings around my lathe. I keep mine on the other side of the shop from my lathe.

I have 14' high ceilings in my shop as well...with exposed rafters. But I have it pretty well insulated. What I did was to hang a box fan on the wall, about 8' off the floor...pointed at the middle of the roof/ceiling. All the warm air that collects there is circulated throughout the shop. It doesn't take much air movement to be very effective.

Finally, I think you'd be better off insulating the entire roof...not just above your lathe. By the time winter is done, you would have paid for the insulation with savings in kerosene.

my 2 cents

[Chris Stolicky]

I agree that investment in insulation may ultimately be the better way to go. Hey, you may also be able to get a tax break on some of the costs with the energy efficiency stuff going on.

A couple of concerns I have:

I'm not too familiar with these types of heaters, but anytime there is a flame the result is CO. In any enclosed space, CO is very dangerous.

I also agree about the wood chips, saw dust, and any other flammable material. Sounds like a situation that could get pretty bad.

I have a little propane heater that I will only use in my little shop if I let it get very cold - just to warm it up quickly. I will not use it very long. I pretty much only use a little oil filled portable space heater to heat my shop. It is pretty small, but well insulated.

Just be careful, I am exposed to way too many incidents involving CO. We want to see what you create on your lathe. Be careful.

[Mike Minto]

gee, thanks for the reminder. i've just gotten past having to sweat all over my turnings (even with a small AC unit in my small shop); now i have to worry about freezing while turning. you know, Virginia is not my favorite state. Mike

[Judy Kingery]

I certainly sympathize as I like turning in a warm shop, so I use a kerosene heater as well. In our case, I did just put a ceiling in the shop, insulate, then deck the attic for storage w/ 3/4" ply. (we have a very small garage so the expense was fairly minimal and I did the work). Then insulated the north wall (this is an attached garage) and drywalled it. So while sure, the garage door has quite a bit of draft/ventilation/circulation, the space is pretty small and one kerosene heater keeps it toasty! Best wishes to you on whatever you decide, but I'd say in the long run you'd be happy with a ceiling and insulation and save over time. And be warm best of all!

Let us know how it works out, stay warm!

Jude

[Reed Gray]

I have one of the oil type electric radiators. Does a fair job of keeping the shop temperate. I did get the ceiling insulated. I checked out the price of insulation, and then asked an insulation company how much. They put in the insulation, and put some white plastic vapor barrior over it for about $50 more than just the insulation would have cost me. I removed the garage car door, and put in an insulated wall with windows and a man door it as well. Much more comfortable.

robo hippy

[Michael Mills]

Dang you, you evil pro-vortexers. I can hear you now…"Is he going to spend $100 for sheet rock or (giggle giggle) $300 more for additional R30?" Go ahead, have your little laugh!
Seriously, thanks to everyone for all of the suggestions. I had never even considered CO because of the current open space. I’m almost positive there is a tax break right now, I know there is on window replacement and many other items. I also have a squirrel cage blower that moves a lot of air which I can mount on a bracket and angle down. I will call around to local insulators; they should be able to give me a quote on the phone. It is 16X28 so it should be a quick estimate for either roll or blown in insulation. I even had one of those nice electric oil-filled heaters…gave it to my son a couple of years ago for a yard sale just to have it out of my way. But…my kerosene heater with an aluminum plate across the top is the perfect place to keep my coffee hot.
As long as the edge is taken off I’m good to go…high 50’s to 60’s is perfect short sleeve weather.
Again, thanks for your responses and any additional ideas are welcome.
Mike

[Dave Wagner]

I tried my kerosene heating last spring, started routering a board, the chips flew right near it and caught on fire....Holy crap, the flames started shooting up out of the top of the heater, had to quick hit the button to kill the heater.

How about the Insulation Board (Foam) put on the rafters.
My rafters are exposed the same way so far, hopefully soon, I will have a ceiling with insulation. All the walls are insulated.

[Rob Cunningham]

Do you have room to put up a ceiling fan? I have 3 in my shop and they really help push the warm air down in the winter.

[Michael Mills]

Dave,
Another good idea. Did a quick check of Lowe's and HD. About $10 for the R4.7, but the same manufactures also had two inch thick, same R4.7 but $26? I will have to check around with building supply companies.
Do two layers give you about 9.5, 7.5, or 11.5? I don’t know the change when they are sandwiched together.
Pros…light and easy to install (the second layer with construction adhesive).
Cons.. Sometime we will sell this home and the shop is attached adjacent to the family room. The shop was built (wired) for easy installation of a door to just step down into the rest of the house. The rest of the house has R30 in the ceiling so I may loose more on resale when that time comes by doing it cheap now.
If it was not attached the insulation board would probably be the way to go for me. Will have to think about it some more..
Keep the ideas coming.
Thanks,
Mike

[Richard Madison]

Might as well go whole hog. Install any additional electrical service that might be required (I wired my last two shops myself), insulate and dry wall the whole shop, ceiling included (did that myself on previous shop but not this one). Once the shop is up to about 60 degrees, just the lights and the furious pace of your work will keep it warm.

But if you're planning on selling the place within a couple years, back to the shower curtain idea. Must have some kind of a "ceiling" over the work area, or the warm air will just zoom out the top.

[George Guadiane]

Originally Posted by Reed Gray

I have one of the oil type electric radiators. Does a fair job of keeping the shop temperate. I did get the ceiling insulated. I checked out the price of insulation, and then asked an insulation company how much. They put in the insulation, and put some white plastic vapor barrior over it for about $50 more than just the insulation would have cost me. I removed the garage car door, and put in an insulated wall with windows and a man door it as well. Much more comfortable.

robo hippy

I'm in NY, it gets COLD and the barn has no insulation in the outside walls (I rent, for now)... I use one of those oil type electric radiators too, only I leave it on, even when I'm not there.

I put the heater UNDER THE LATHE (Powermatic 3520) when I'm not turning (first I clean up the shavings really well). The heat from the radiator warms the cast iron lathe which radiates into the rest of the 12X20 room. When I start turning, the lathe feels like summer and the heat I generate along with this space heater keeps the shop in the 60s when I'm in there - 40s, the rest of the time.