"Hand made"

[John Noell]

We do laser cut jewelry and some people think "hand made" is better some how than what we do (although we spend at least 20x longer on the hand finishing part than the laser part). This picture is of 'hand made' earrings from Thailand. Funny how they have those black edges and scorch marks. Must have been somebody with hot hands making them.

[Anthony Scira]

There is a new laser line by the Korean manufacturer "Hand". It was lasered and it is Hand Made.

Yeah that is laser work if I ever saw it.

[Tim Bateson]

• That's an example that shows a total lack of being hand made. They were too lazy to even clean up their work before posting a picture,

[John Noell]

Originally Posted by Anthony Scira

There is a new laser line by the Korean manufacturer "Hand". It was lasered and it is Hand Made.

Doh!! Of course! Gotta get one of those for myself!

[Dan Hintz]

During my last trip to the Bahamas about a year ago, there was a gentleman on the streets using a fine coping saw to cut out designs... very intricate designs... out of pewter spoons, silver dollars, etc. I estimate it took him several hours to cut out the larger designs, and he was selling his stuff for $30-$50. Tough to compete with that kind of pricing, and he did requests.

[Frank Corker]

John the design in that one is nice, but the quality is not a patch on the stuff that you are doing, your stuff is leaps and bounds ahead of that stuff!

[Lee DeRaud]

Originally Posted by John Noell

We do laser cut jewelry and some people think "hand made" is better some how than what we do (although we spend at least 20x longer on the hand finishing part than the laser part).

Doesn't matter how much hand work you put in, you're gonna get some attitude from somebody who thinks you're "cheating" because you use a computer.
(Typically someone in the scrollsaw community who copies all of his designs from books, but there ya go.)

[Dee Gallo]

So straighten me out here: is a scroll saw considered cheating on a coping saw? Do they think that shopbot 3D is cheating on electric gouges which are cheating on gouge and hammer which is cheating on a pocket knife?

Is an ROSander cheating on a piece of sandpaper wrapped around a piece of wood which is cheating on scraping with a piece of glass?

Why are some electrical devices okay and others not? Using a router with a purchased template is okay, but using a computer is bad? How do they think they make those templates?

At what point does one technology become NOT cheating? Must someone invent a molecular reorganizer to make the laser acceptable? Sheesh.

My opinion (OWIAETH) is that a tool is only as good as the person using it and it's just as likely to make a mess as a masterpiece. Cheating to me is when you get someone else to do your work or you copy their work exactly without any thought of your own.

dee

[David Fairfield]

"Hand Made" stuff is evil, its all made by prison laborers and children in sweatshops! Lots of material is lost to waste! Laser goods are humane and eco friendly!

Dave

[Lee DeRaud]

Originally Posted by Dee Gallo

Cheating to me is when you get someone else to do your work or you copy their work exactly without any thought of your own.

I had a scrollsaw guy practically frothing at the mouth when I said something to that effect...
and then asked him where he got his designs (mostly Disney characters ).

[Lee DeRaud]

Originally Posted by David Fairfield

"Hand Made" stuff is evil, its all made by prison laborers and children in sweatshops! Lots of material is lost to waste! Laser goods are humane and eco friendly!

Orphaned photons, enslaved to do my bidding, forced to march in lockstep, with no pay or benefits...
as Mr. Burns would say, "Excellent!" (insert evil laugh sound-effect here)

[John Noell]

Originally Posted by Dee Gallo

Is an ROSander cheating on a piece of sandpaper wrapped around a piece of wood which is cheating on scraping with a piece of glass?

Yes to all but since glass is almost always machine made, it is cheating on scraping with your teeth and fingernails.

[John Noell]

With all due respect to the scrollsaw folks, I don't think you CAN do this kind of work without a tool like the laser. This earring is only about 30mm/1" high. People seem to think they are pretty, and at least in coconut shell, I don't know how you could do it "by hand."

[John Barton]

Originally Posted by John Noell

With all due respect to the scrollsaw folks, I don't think you CAN do this kind of work without a tool like the laser. This earring is only about 30mm/1" high. People seem to think they are pretty, and at least in coconut shell, I don't know how you could do it "by hand."

I am pretty sure someone could do that with a dremel "by hand".

But you are right. Consumers and some producers seem to think that "made by hand" is somehow "the best". On the consumer side they have no clue how something was really done unless they stood over the person doing it. On the producer side it's often either people who can't afford to get the right machines or people who use tools and jigs to do the same thing we do with a better and faster tool and call it "made by hand".

This debate rages all the time on the billiards forum over pool cues and inlays done using a CNC vs. ones made with a pantograph. You know those pantographs that use templates made by CNC routers????? :-)

On the leather worker forum it comes up all the time as well.

Frankly, I just market my products based on their quality with no explanation of how they were made unless it adds to the description for some important reason. For example one case we make is only technically possible IF the last line is sewn by hand. For this reason no competitor will even try it and they use far easier methods to finish their cases.

But my competitors will use the "hand made" description all the time even though they use sewing machines, rivet setters, laser engraving, and factory produced tubes. I can't stand it. But it's life and I realized last night after a conversation with a customer that my customers aren't really paying for how it's made - they are paying for the experience and don't really care HOW the product gets done as long as it's done how they want it done and is well made. But they will even settle for less than well made if the experience is good enough.

[John Barton]

Originally Posted by John Noell

We do laser cut jewelry and some people think "hand made" is better some how than what we do (although we spend at least 20x longer on the hand finishing part than the laser part). This picture is of 'hand made' earrings from Thailand. Funny how they have those black edges and scorch marks. Must have been somebody with hot hands making them.

You want a better one? This is how one of our competitors describes their cues with laser engraved designs;

"Each XXXX cue features leather wraps, steel joints and butt caps and unique designs branded into the butt of the cue with a unique blow torch branding technique."

Right......... someone with a blow torch is precisely burning these patterns at depth into wood and they are so good that each one comes out the exact same each time.

For the record - I have watched these cues being made. They are done on Universal 660 lasers with dual rotaries.