Stanley sweetheart blades

[Shawn Patel]

Why are these prized? Just because they're rare? Or are they better made blades than Stanley's normal ones?
Sorry for the dumb q.

[David Gendron]

No idea, but I know that I like my Hock replacements, bether as users!!

[Martin Cash]

I don't think that it is the blades as such.
The SW badged planes came out around 1919 and went through several Types until the early 1930's starting with the Stanley Type 12 planes.
These were very well made and contained all of the improvements to the Stanley line of planes up until that time. Some would say that there were no significant additions after these and that in the course of time the quality declined as well.
Here is a small list of features found on the SW and some of Stanley's later planes:

• High quality control
• Well balanced tool in use
• High quality materials - rosewood, brass, steel etc
• Well designed frog and the quality machining of the base to take it
• Frog adjusting screw for forward/back frog adjustment
• Lateral adjustment lever
• Large wheel depth adjuster - easier and more precise than the small one that preceded it
• Consistency in the quality of the product - across the range of Stanley planes the manufacturing process had reaches a "sweet spot" and this enhanced the Stanley reputation.

Of course there will be other features that I have missed, but to my mind these are the important ones.

So it is the SW package that people desire, not simply the SW blade.
Hope that this helps
MC


PS: pictures courtesy of Woodworking at Rexmill

[Sean Ackerman NY]

A heads up...a little birdie told me to keep your eyes open on new Stanley product offerings in the next few months before christmas

[Sam Takeuchi]

They aren't better. SW era products are allegedly the high point of hand tool production by Stanley. Personally I don't feel that there is any difference from pre-SW era planes and blades. If someone says SW logo blades are better than pre-SW plane blades, no. Stanley never bothered to make great blades (except for Stanley in Australia that made HSS plane blades). They were 'decent' blades, SW era or otherwise (recent production of Stanley blades are simply crap, out of league).

Probably the reason SW blades are more expensive is because either someone wants a matching stock replacement for their SW plane or someone's putting SW parts together to make a complete SW plane. But SW blade/cap iron assembly set isn't that expensive.

Honestly I think people simply identify vintage Stanley planes with SW logo. They probably know enough to say new Stanley planes are bad, but not certain of types or years 'good stuff' were made. Even among woodworkers and casual tool buffs, learning types isn't the most prized activity. For many, I think, SW items simply identify that the tools are made 'when Stanley was still making good stuff' and the tool is 'old enough to be good, but not sure how old' sort of thing. Kind of like watered down, vague identification people slapped on them. SW planes, can't go wrong! type of thing. They are good, but so are pre-SW planes. I think people bought into "SW planes are the best out of Stanley production line" idea from published opinion of someone in the past.

[Sam Takeuchi]

Originally Posted by Martin Cash

I don't think that it is the blades as such.
The SW badged planes came out around 1919 and went through several Types until the early 1930's starting with the Stanley Type 12 planes.
These were very well made and contained all of the improvements to the Stanley line of planes up until that time. Some would say that there were no significant additions after these and that in the course of time the quality declined as well.
Here is a small list of features found on the SW and some of Stanley's later planes:

• High quality control
• Well balanced tool in use
• High quality materials - rosewood, brass, steel etc
• Well designed frog and the quality machining of the base to take it
• Frog adjusting screw for forward/back frog adjustment
• Lateral adjustment lever
• Large wheel depth adjuster - easier and more precise than the small one that preceded it
• Consistency in the quality of the product - across the range of Stanley planes the manufacturing process had reaches a "sweet spot" and this enhanced the Stanley reputation.

Of course there will be other features that I have missed, but to my mind these are the important ones.

So it is the SW package that people desire, not simply the SW blade.
Hope that this helps
MC

Some of 'features' were already present on pre-SW planes then. Frog adjustment screw was added with type 10, rosewood knob and handle for regular bench plane line were already there. Lateral adjuster came ages before, and all these 'quality' control and machining, is it even relevant now? After so many years, there is enough wear and scratches, or movement in iron that it's rare to find a plane that doesn't need a bit of fettling, SW or otherwise.

P.S. I like small depth adjuster wheel and low knob.

[Martin Cash]

Originally Posted by Sam Takeuchi

Some of 'features' were already present on pre-SW planes then. Frog adjustment screw was added with type 10, rosewood knob and handle for regular bench plane line were already there. Lateral adjuster came ages before, and all these 'quality' control and machining, is it even relevant now? After so many years, there is enough wear and scratches, or movement in iron that it's rare to find a plane that doesn't need a bit of fettling, SW or otherwise.

P.S. I like small depth adjuster wheel and low knob.

Yes of course.
However only on the SW planes and those that followed, did one find all of these features.
As for liking the small adjuster wheel - good for you.
The larger one is very popular with users because of its mechanical advantage and ease of use as well as its ability to more finely adjust the depth of the blade.
MC

[Bob Easton]

Perhaps the other way to look at it is post SW planes slowly declined in quality to the point of being junk. Since there were few further innovations or changes after the SW era, it's very difficult to tell the early post-SW relatively decent quality from the much later junk. So, we use the SW as a threshold identifier.

[Jim Koepke]

P.S. I like small depth adjuster wheel and low knob.

I like the low knob, but the large depth adjuster. If you have big ones you would like to trade for small ones, send me a PM.

As far as the SW era is concerned, there is a lot going on when this starts at the beginning of the "Roaring Twenties."

A war had just ended and prosperity was spreading across the land. A lot of building was going on because of the automobile's effect on mobility.

New machinery may have made a bit of improvement on manufacturing at Stanley, but my preference is for pre SW planes for the low knob. At the end of the SW era, there was a ring around the knob that hinders efforts at installing a low knob on the planes. There is also the matter of the ogee sided frog with less blade bedding surface that came out at the end of the SW era.

jim

[John Eaton]

Esthetically I like the delicate, rounded totes of the type 11s, and for users the heavier soles on the type 17s. I have a few SW tools and other than the logo they seem to me to be of the same quality overall.

-- John

[Richard Niemiec]

Originally Posted by Shawn Patel

Why are these prized? Just because they're rare? Or are they better made blades than Stanley's normal ones?
Sorry for the dumb q.

As to the original question, I don't think they are particularly prized, but they are effective irons and keep an edge well. Most I have seen are laminated with better steel at the working end; some competitors like Millers Falls tried to distinguish themselves by making the entire iron out of tool steel, and you'll see that marking on some MF irons, which were a tad thicker as well. We all know why we like Hock replacements, and I have several, but honestly for most general work the original Stanley irons will work just fine. Generally, its been my experience that up to the late '50s Stanley irons are of pretty good quality.

RN

[David Keller NC]

Originally Posted by Shawn Patel

Why are these prized? Just because they're rare? Or are they better made blades than Stanley's normal ones?
Sorry for the dumb q.

Actually, the reason these are expensive is because of collectors. There are a very large number of serious collectors of Stanley tools in the US, and in order for a plane to be collectable, it has to have the original blade and parts, and be either rare or in extraordinary condition. The sweetheart era is especially collectible, because, believe it or not, the "sweetheart" trademark has special appeal. Sort of weird that a bunch of old guys (99% of the collector's market) would be interested in a heart trademark, but it is what it is.

Particularly in the case of a rare plane, adding a correct blade with the correct trademark can increase the value of it many times.

Other planes older than the sweetheart era are collectible as well, of course, but there's considerably fewer of them out there, which frustrates collectors that want "one of everything".

Phillip Stanley alludes to this in his guide to rule collecting. The rarest mark in American rule manufacturers is Belcher Brothers, but there are so few of them out there that building a significant collection may not be possible on one's lifetime. As a result, the prices on these rules can often be quite a bit lower than the equivalent rule from a still rare but not unfindable manufacturer, like the older Chapin-Stevens or the "A. Stanley" rules.

[Bob Smalser]

Why Sweetheart? It's simple, actually. If you are buying by mail based on photos, descriptions, and seller reputation, you are more likely to get a plane capable of flattening and fettling into something worthwhile if you stick to the prewar era of higher overall quality.

The original Sweethearts were made from 1920 to 1932, and you can extend that end date through 1941 and benefit from that combination of "modern" features, relatively advanced, consistent metallurgy, properly-seasoned castings and hand workmanship that made superior tools. It may need a simple tuneup, but with a new Hock or L/N iron equals anything made today, modern lore notwithstanding. And if you are primarily a boatbuilder working in softwoods, the stock irons are more than adequate.

They were made by the millions, have survived in the millions, and often can be had today for less than the value of the materials they were made with. The more common #3's, #4's and #5's can often be had in perfect condition for 20-25 bucks.

This doesn't mean you can't take a plane from the 1960's and fettle it into a great plane, it's just that your chances of avoiding lemons are better if you stick to earlier planes. I generally leave buying post-war tools to those situations when I can inspect them in person before buying.

[Richard Niemiec]

Originally Posted by Bob Smalser

They were made by the millions, have survived in the millions, and often can be had today for less than the value of the materials they were made with. The more common #3's, #4's and #5's can often be had in perfect condition for 20-25 bucks

Agreed that they can be had for less than the value of the materials, but "perfect" condition 3s, 4s and 5s for $20 to $25 is relative to your locale. The ones I find in that price range are generally "challenged" in one way or another and require some work to get them into shape. I'm in NJ so that's my market; if you find such perfect planes in WA you're lucky.

That being said, I've often taken your advice and pursued the generally less expensive transitional planes, and have several users in the #3 and #7 range that perform admirably. I've had to resole them in some cases, but the work is worth the result. Transitional planes are often overlooked or passed upon and can be had for $10 to $15 in my area. Another advantage is that the wood doesn't rust!

RN