Trotec Speedy 300 video clip from NBM Show

[Scott Shepherd]

If you've never seen the Trotec Speedy 300, here's a clip from the NBM shows. Dang that thing moves fast! Thought it was interesting to see it engraving, as you can clearly see how it handles engraving a little different than some of the other machines.

There are a load of video clips on that site. Have a look around. It's like going to the show without getting all the spam

http://www.nbmshows.com/09/g/6nc/vid...l#num=1&id=ib6

[Dave Lock]

Thanks for the link Scott. Very interesting and very quick.

I'm not sure how much advantage this speed is. Wouldn't there need to be a substantial increase in power to gain the benefit over a slower machine? And with power there is of coarse more cost.

If anyone has any other links to video clips of any other or the leading US built machines I'd appreciate it.

[James & Zelma Litzmann]

Scott, thanks for sharing the link, I watched all the clips and there was some really good info on there . . . engough to get me into trouble . . . thanks again.

[Dan Hintz]

Originally Posted by Dave Lock

I'm not sure how much advantage this speed is. Wouldn't there need to be a substantial increase in power to gain the benefit over a slower machine?

The speed comes into effect when you're doing a lot of rastering at less than 100% power (e.g., not with Cermark), and possibly in vectoring instances where you can't run at 100% power (no matter the speed), such as with foam that melts easily. I do a lot of anodized aluminum... since I'm using only 15% power, I could really crank up the speed.

[Rob Bosworth]

I think an interesting test would be for someone to come up with a graphics file, and have a number of different owners of different manufactured machines run the file. I know there will be some variables that we probably won't be able to filter out. But if the test is done at 100% speed, 600 dpi, we will get some idea of how "fast" or similar these machines really are. If we could come up with a "head to head" test, we would have to hope that we aren't mislead by someone reporting, who has to have the fastest machine, whether it is or not.

Over the years, we have worked on and tested a number of different makes and models of machines. Some of these machines appear to be so "busy" that nothing could compete with them. Every once in a while, we will have a couple of machines sitting side by side, and we will run a certain job on both of them. It is pretty amazing how long it takes each machine to finish a "job". One machine looks like it is really "pokey" sitting side by side a really "fast" machine. Run the job, say a five or six minute job, and you notice that there is really only a 5 or 6 seconds difference in run time.

Lineal speed is lineal speed. But how long does it take to slow that mass down, stop it, then turn it around and accelerate it in the other direction. How fast can something be vectored, without seeing jagged edges, or lopsided circles. Square corners can also challenge some systems when running the machine at high speeds.

[Scott Shepherd]

Rob, we had the Epilog Helix and thought it was super fast. We went to see the ULS demo and my first impression was "That thing sure is slow moving". Then we put the same file in both machines and timed it. I don't recall the exact results, but it's posted somewhere on the forum, but it seems to me that the ULS was as fast, if not faster, on the same job.

So, I agree, it can be deceiving to see one run. I'd be happy to pony up our results in a head to head test. Can't say we'll be the fastest, but I'd be happy to give it a go and post results, but it should be a wide range of types of files, in my opinion.

[Rob Bosworth]

Scott, isn't that amazing? I put some machines into my brother's shop, sometimes to do some final testing to make sure they have been refurbished correctly. Almost every time he has two different manufacture's machines side by side, he is amazed as to how similar they run jobs.

Here is another one. The 1992, 1993 ULS 25 A had a blinding top speed of ~ 16"/ second. (It is like watching paint dry raster engraving compared to new machines.) However, if you want to do a very small, intricate vector engraving job, it will out perform any system on the market. We had a customer who had one sitting next to 3 or 4 generations of ULS machines in his wood shop. He was doing a scrimshaw type of engraving on a small piece. The newer the machine, the slower it did the vector engraving. The 1992 machine did the job in like 5 minutes, the 1998 machine did it in 9 minutes, the 2003 in 12 minutes, and the newest machine in 14 minutes. (Those numbers might be off a smidge, but it was as dramatic as that.)

[Dan Hintz]

No need to make it complicated. Draw a 12"x12" square in the middle of the table (to remove "edge" effects for the time being, assuming a table larger than 12" square), doesn't matter what color, set the desired resolution, and run it with the top up (no beam). Time it.

Do it again, this time with a 12" long, 1 mil vertical line. This test will tell you how much time is spent accelerating/decelerating.

The best (only?) way to get speed out of it is to lower the carriage weight, increase motor torque, and reduce friction. The difference in weight between ULS, Epilog, and Trotec carriages is probably minimal (a few tens of grams, maybe?), but a stronger motor is a real possibility. I haven't seen a Trotec in person, but from the video it appears they aren't using rollers like ULS, but a semi-ridgid band trapped within a channel. If you can keep down torsional movements (or at least recover quickly before firing), you can really crank up the speed.

I seem to recall ULS/Epilog are in the 75-80ips range, and the Trotec was in the 140ips range (but don't quote me on that).

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, I'd like to do more than speed and do quality as well. Each test would have time as well as macro photos of the engraving so you could see the results to see if the quality was the same, hence the reason for a variety of different files.

[Anthony Scira]

I like the interior of that thing. Are those lights in the cabinet for the video or are they built into the machine. Now I need some gas struts for my door !

Nice looking machine and quality looks top notch !

[Dan Hintz]

Originally Posted by Scott Shepherd

Dan, I'd like to do more than speed and do quality as well.

That goes towards my comment about torsional recovery... if the carriage cannot recover from the fast shifting, there's little point in going fast. The laser can be cycled fast enough, so as long as positional accuracy is similar, quality should be just as good as any other system. I'm not saying it is with this system, but if they've dealt with the mechanical issues, everything else should be the same.

[Dee Gallo]

Originally Posted by Anthony Scira

I like the interior of that thing. Are those lights in the cabinet for the video or are they built into the machine. Now I need some gas struts for my door !

Nice looking machine and quality looks top notch !

I'm with Anthony on this one - that enclosed bed must eliminate a lot of accumulated stuff on the moving parts.

[Mike Null]

The lights are built into the machine.

You can buy gas struts from Guden in New York. Good quality stuff. http://www.guden.com/control-dampers.aspx

[Chip Peterson]

I have the Trotec 300, and I'd be happy to test out my speed and quality verses another manufacturer's. So, if this gains traction, let me turn on my cabinet lights, lift up my gas strut assisted lid, and fire "Gerald" up!

Seriously, if someone wants to work with me on this testing, count me in.

[Steve Clarkson]

I'll do it Chip.....I don't need to keep it a secret how fast my laser is compared to others.