Have to buy a used minivan....what to do?

[Josh Reet]

I apologize in advance for this somewhat pointless long rambling "what should I buy" post. I typically can solve my own problems (or at least come up with better specific questions) than this. But I guess we all have stuff that we get brainlocked over. Some people stress about which tool to buy, some people about which camera to buy, some about which car.

The time has come in my life when I need to get a minivan. Now, this actually doesn't bother me that much because:

A. We had vans the whole time I grew up. they are very handy.
B. I'm tired of not having enough room in the jetta wagon But with an 18 month old, a baby on the way in march, and a 100 lb dog, we just need more room in our vehicle.
C. With a second kid coming, we need the ability to put a carseat in two different cars for various trips where kids need to be in different places at different times.

Here's what we currently own:

-2005 Jetta TDI Wagon, great gas mileage but smaller than you would think for a family.
-1998 Ford Ranger XLT, 4x4 for when we get snow or I (rarely) get to go fishing/snowboarding, runs fine but not a crew cab and front seat carseat placement isn't the best idea.
-1983 VW camper van, selling this as soon as I can get it cleaned up and posted on CL, so disregard for the purposes of this thread

So here's what I'm thinking I could do:

1. Sell/trade jetta and get a late model van

At one point not long ago, I checked into trading my jetta in on an import late model minivan and found that I was still going to have to put $6k into the deal. Which was lame in my book, but that's what you get for trading in. Even if I sold privately, I'd still have to put $2-3k in at the end of the day as far as I can tell. Plus, it wouldn't have solved the "two cars for carseats" thing.

2. Keep jetta and buy a 99-03 range van

There are a lot of Dodge Caravans (or Plymouth Voyager) vans out there in 99-03 year range that run $4-6k for a decent looking one with 80-100k miles. For that money, I could keep the jetta and the truck and just have a third vehicle. Yes, a bit more in insurance, but I'm already paying for a third vehicle because of that silly camper van I own. Now, I'd be buying an 8-10 year old van. But then again, we'd have three vehicles if anything went wrong with it.

3. Buy a 99-03 van and sell the jetta, then sell the truck and buy a 99-03 crew cab truck

If I had a crew cab truck we could get away with owning just two vehicles. My Ranger is great and is a fine size for what I need, but I wouldn't mind getting into an f150 size truck at some point. However, this plan would involve a bunch of pain in my ass since I would essentially have to sell two vehicles and buy two more. Selling and buying cars is annoying to me which is why I put it off all the time (and have a camper van I haven't camped in for 2 years). Also, this leaves me with two 8-10 year old vehicles. Not a dealbreaker, there are many cars that age on the road. But perhaps a pain for reliability. Finally, there aren't a lot of crew cab trucks available in that year/price range, so it might not be the easiest to get something decent or at a good price.

4. Buy a 99-03 van and sell the jetta, then sell the truck and buy a 02-06 4x4 SUV of some sort

Truth be told, I dont HAVE to have a truck. I need something with some ground clearance for when I go fishing up logging roads and 4x4 for when I go snowboarding. But the truck bed is mostly just used for muddy dogs, lumber/whatnot/etc and non messy trips to the dump. I do have an 8x10 utility trailer that could replace most of those uses. And with SUV's being as un-loved as they are, I could probably get a newer nicer one than I could a crew cab truck in the same price range. Of course, I'm still buying and selling two different vehicles, which is annoying.

Just as info, we don't drive much. I work from my home and my wife is a homemaker (or whatever independent women like to be called who have chosen to stay at home and be mothers). We drive around town a lot and take a few 90-120 mile round trips per month to see the grandparents. The 45mpg of the jetta is really nice for all that, but truth be told, probably not necessary. It wouldn't be a huge hit to the wallet to have to drop to the 20mpg of a minivan.

I typically have bought my used cars privately. I tend to buy on miles and owner "vibe" (college ski bum kid=bad, older family man=good) more than anything like price or year. So while private party sales are often cheaper than dealers, I typically end up paying more than I might from a dealer. Plus, I just have a hard time trusting car dealers (okay, I hate dealing with most car dealers/salesmen). Especially the non-manufacturer dealers who tend to have the bulk of the 8-10 year old vehicles. But, both my jetta and my ranger have served me well with few problems. So I tend to think that I'm at least a little smart/lucky in this regard. Here's an example of a '99 van that I might go look at. The miles are low for the year and email with the guy shows that he knows what he's talking about and seems to have treated it well:

http://bellingham.craigslist.org/cto/1446587627.html

But then again, this dealer (small time dealer, mostly sells truck accessories/trailers/etc would have bought van at auction likely) has been trying to sell this '05 van for at least two months now (no idea if there is anything wrong with it):

http://bellingham.craigslist.org/ctd/1447981426.html

Did I mention I hate dealing with car dealers/salesmen?

Anyway, thanks for reading my long rant. Even if there is no useful answer that anyone here can give, it helped me to clear my head a bit to type it out.

[Ken Garlock]

The solution is simple:
1. Tie the dog to the rear bumper or,
2. Tie the dog to a tether in the backyard.

I vote for #2. But I am kind to animals. I am so kind that I cut a dogs tail off in little pieces instead of all at once.

[Josh Reet]

Originally Posted by Ken Garlock

The solution is simple:
1. Tie the dog to the rear bumper or,
2. Tie the dog to a tether in the backyard.

I vote for #2. But I am kind to animals. I am so kind that I cut a dogs tail off in little pieces instead of all at once.

If anything was going to get tied to anything, it would be the cats to a bag of rocks.

But I knew what I was getting in the animal department when I married my wife. Plus, I do love my dog. Even if he does make car buying surprisingly difficult.

[Horton Brasses]

Why not just get a used Outback wagon or similar? Would do everything you want-and tow the utility trailer to boot. Cheaper and more fun to drive than a van. Then again, minivans are darn useful. They can tow your utility trailer too. Really, most vans and outbacks can tow a minimum of 1500 pounds and many tow 3000 pounds. Do you put that much in the trailer?

[Montgomery Scott]

I've owned a Dodge Grand Caravan and a Plymouth Voyager. They are, I hope, the last Chrysler vehicles I ever own. Once my current Caravan dies I plan to replace it with another minivan. They have great utility. I can put in sheets of plywood and up to 10' sticks of lumber, carry up to seven people and the gas mileage of the newer vans is pretty good. Most likely I will get a Honda Odyssey. They are rated far above US made minivans.

[Josh Reet]

Originally Posted by Horton Brasses

Why not just get a used Outback wagon or similar? Would do everything you want-and tow the utility trailer to boot. Cheaper and more fun to drive than a van. Then again, minivans are darn useful. They can tow your utility trailer too. Really, most vans and outbacks can tow a minimum of 1500 pounds and many tow 3000 pounds. Do you put that much in the trailer?

I have owned a couple of subaru wagons and they are great vehicles. But they really aren't any bigger than a jetta wagon. And to be honest, I wouldn't tow anything with them of any weight. They aren't designed to be tow vehicles. But you are right about vans, most of them can tow around 3k.

[Josh Reet]

Originally Posted by Montgomery Scott

I've owned a Dodge Grand Caravan and a Plymouth Voyager. They are, I hope, the last Chrysler vehicles I ever own. Once my current Caravan dies I plan to replace it with another minivan. They have great utility. I can put in sheets of plywood and up to 10' sticks of lumber, carry up to seven people and the gas mileage of the newer vans is pretty good. Most likely I will get a Honda Odyssey. They are rated far above US made minivans.

They hondas are great, no doubt (toyotas too). But they are priced far above what I can pay for a minivan at this point, even used. Other than trucks, I'm not a huge fan of domestic vehicles. But that's what I'm stuck with at the moment as far as I can tell.

[RickT Harding]

Another vote to check out the subaru. The new models are a bit larger and when I just got mine I went ahead and got the cargo carrier for it right away. If you upgrade to the V6 you'll get decent towing and it'll go through anything that Ranger would and more.

I just love driving a car and 95% of the time I don't need a truck/etc. I kept thinking of something different to do this summer when I bought another Outback. In the end, there's just nothing out there as versatile and fun and my last one lasted me for a good while with no troubles.

I wouldn't tow a lot with my 4cyl outback, but I think the V6 is up there with a minivan.

The only other thing that came close was the Ford Taurus X (Freestyle), but it's 3 rows of seats and more SUV as far as price/gas mileage goes.

[Josh Reet]

Again, don't get me wrong, I love subarus.

But if we are having trouble fitting the kid, carseat, bob stroller, and dog in the Jetta wagon, we are not going to do much better in a subaru. Particularly when baby 2.0 comes along. A minivan pretty much HAS to be part of this equation.

Could it be a minivan and a subaru (and no truck), yes, that is a possibility. But to be honest, while it was great in the snow (I mean really great) I'm not that big of a fan of the subaru as a fishing/logging-road vehicle. The ground clearance just isn't in the same class as a truck or even most SUVs.

In addition, even with a V6, the transmission/brakes aren't set up for towing on a car. Yes, you CAN tow with a car, I just am not particularly interested in doing so because I don't think it's good for the car or really very safe for the driver. So I would probably end up using the van for anything that I wanted to tow. Which would probably work fine given my towing requirements.

[Charles Wintle]

My vote for a minivan is the Toyota, Honda and then a Chrysler.

[Jeff Monson]

Agreed that a outback or forester is a great car but they are not comparable to a minivan for interior room and conveniences. I think you can get alot of caravan for the money, not a bad vehicle but not great either, you are getting what you pay for.

I personally would look for an odyssey van with higher miles, that will bring it down into your price range. For the layout and dependability of the honda line you cant go wrong.

[Jim O'Dell]

I've had 2 Dodge Caravans. 1994, and currently a 1999. If you go that route, be sure to get the 3.3 or 3.8 liter engine. Timing chain vs the timing belt in the 3.0 liter Mitsubishi engine my 1994 had. LOML drives the Caravan.
I have a Ford E-250 extended cargo van with windows. Easy to get full sheets of ply in it with the doors closed. Not so great on gas mileage though. Jim.

[Pat Germain]

I'm going to add another Subaru recommendation. Get a used Forrester and forget the Chrysler minivan. (Forresters have more room than a typical wagon.) Buying a brand new Chrysler minivan might be OK because it's new and under full factory warranty. Buying a used Chrysler with no warranty is like shooting yourself in the foot and then later wondering why your foot hurts so bad.

Also, although it may be technically possible to tow with a Chrysler minivan, I wouldn't recommend it. The brakes on those vehicles are notoriously under-engineered. Towing a trailer will make this bad situation worse. Those vans also tend to have transmission troubles. Again, towing will make it even more likely the tranny will go out.

Why do I have this attitude?

I bought my wife a brand new Chrysler sedan years ago. It had the exact same drivetrain as the Chrysler minivans. The tranny went out once under warranty. Then it went out again just after the warranty was up. Because it was a car notorious for tranny failures, it was worthless as a trade-in.

I then bought my wife a brand new Jeep Cherokee. I had to completely remove the entire front brake assembly (calipers, pads, rotors) and throw it all away when it was just over a year old. The the calipers were siezed, the rotors were corroded and the pads were shot. The vehicle was under warranty, but Chrysler refused to acknowledge there was even problem. (Grrrrrrr...). No more Chryslers for Watash. And I certainly won't recommend a used Chrysler for anyone I like.

There's a very good reason used Chrysler minivans are so reasonably priced.

[Josh Reet]

I appreciate the advice on the Chrysler issues. Good to know.

But again, for all the reasons I keep saying, the subaru is not going to work. I've owned multiple subarus and they are great cars. But they will not solve my space issue.

[Paul Ryan]

Josh,

I have been in the car buisness my whole life. Fixing cars, writting service, fixing them again, and now self employed inspector. I see lots and lots of vehicles every week. I have no idea why the honda's are rated so high. I amount of major repairs on honda odyseey are very high. The repairs are primarly transmission issues and air conditioning. The transmission issues with chysler mini vans that every one will like to tell you about ended with the 2001 model. You will have some od ball stuff from here to there. But the last major flaw in the 41TE transmission was finally designed out of it for the middle of 2000 year starting with all of the 2001 modles. I can go on and on about different things to look for in a mini van, but I say steer clear of the odyssey. There is a reason chrysler and dodge vans sell more than all of the others combined.

The reason that 2005 van is so low is because it is a non "stow and go". The "stow and go" allows you to fold all of the seats into the floor. It is a really really nice feature. I just sold my 02 van that had 98k on it and bought an 06 basically because of the "stow and go". I hated have a seat taking up space in my shop. I wouldn't be afraid of any chrysler van 2002 and newer with 100k miles on it. It is just getting broken in. I have seen plenty of chrysler vans over the years with 4, 5 and 6 hundred thousand miles on them. My neighbor had a 87 with 500k on it with the orginal trans that he sold for $1,000 3 years ago. But with anything you buy check it over good. I find that the "fly by night" guys try to hide things on vehicles much more often than the dealers. The dealers usually check there vehicles over much better and help out a customer more after the sale. Good luck.



"Also, although it may be technically possible to tow with a Chrysler minivan, I wouldn't recommend it. The brakes on those vehicles are notoriously under-engineered. Towing a trailer will make this bad situation worse. Those vans also tend to have transmission troubles. Again, towing will make it even more likely the tranny will go out"


I have to add. That Pat's statement about towing with a van is completely false. Nothing against Pat, but I have seen so many vans tow small boats, trailers, campers, their whole lives and be just fine. Just look at the amount of mini vans that pull small pop up campers to national parks every summer. They have been designed to pull things. The brakes and trans are just fine if treated properly. My 1st van had 70k on the orginal brake pads, when I changed them and cut the rotors. It all depends on the owner.