Dovetail Saws!

[John Coloccia]

I'm in the market for some nice dovetail and crosscut saws (think tenons). I'm open to anything, including big bow saws like Klausz (holy cow, what's with that bent blade he uses in that 3 minute dovetail video? WOW). Right now I'm just using a cheap "Gents" saw for...well...pretty much everything. I have a Dozuki I use as well, but I've never really mastered it for fine work (at least it doesn't feel like I have) and I'm a little tired of damaging the blades on it also (snapped teeth, bent metal, etc). Technique, technique...I know, I know.

By and large, I don't use the table saw very often anymore. Only for really heavy work. For more delicate stuff, it's mostly handsaws. I just find it's so much easier and faster to do things by hand, and I'm slowly de-evolving into a full fledged neander, but now it's time to upgrade to some quality saws.

Also what are you guys using to resaw? Frame saws? Bow saws? I've done it with a bow saw years and years ago, just for kicks. I remember it being quite easy, actually...much easier than I would have thought. And sooo nice and quiet

[Casey Gooding]

There are sooooo many nice saws available now, it's hard to make recommendations. I have original Independence (pre Lie-Nielsen) dovetail and carcass saws and am very happy with them. I Also use Lie-Nielsen Tenon saws and can't complain. I did own the Adria dovetail saw and it is a fine saw. I just found I like a bit longer blade. Other good bets are Grammercy (from Tools for Working Wood), Eccentric and the new Veritas saws from Lee Valley. There are more and it's a much longer list than you would have found ten years ago. It's a good time to be a Neander.

[Don Dorn]

In the Western saw venue, I'm afraid my experience lies only with the gents saw from Crown that didn't work worth a crap when it was new. After tuning, sharpening and narrowing the kerf, it became a fast cutting saw that I used exclusively -- until I bought the Veritas dovetail saw. It's very nice and if I decide I need a tenon saw, I won't hesitate to get another Veritas.

That said - a friend has the Lie-Nielsen and it's also a very nice saw. Apparantly though, they can all be tuned better as he went to a Frank Klausz seminar and Frank took his saw, then gave it back to him a short time later working even better.

[David Gendron]

I will had two or three other one, it depends on how long you want to wait!! There is Wenzloff & Sons, who curently carry two line of saws, one sold by LV and the other one by The Best Thing. There is also Medallion Tools, great saws, awsome service, customized tote! And, there is the maker of the best large tenon saws yet, Bad Axe Saws by Mark Harrel of Techno Primitive! And I'm sur there is more, like Pax saws and the like! I do have two LN DT saws for take...
Good luck with your saws serch!

[Martin Peek]

Don't forget the older dovetail saws (pre-1950). If you are on a tight budget, you can usually find a Disston, already tuned up or to be cleaned up. There are many around, and can be very good saws.

I personally think that the handle counts for a lot, so spend some time/money getting a good fit. I usually can tell by the squeeze of the calluses under my middle and pinky knuckles. I don't have much experience with Gent's saws.

If your budget is over 100 bucks, there are many options including: Wenzloff, Medallion, Adria, Lie-Nielsen, Eccentric, Gramercy, Bad Axe (Tenon), Veritas (less than 100). Some have wait lists.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

I have three frame saws a la Frid and Klausz and I find them hard to use on smaller stock. At least the models I have are very top heavy which strains my wrists a little meaning I can't use them for as long as I can a smaller saw (yes, I have the smaller Highland framesaw, and it's a big improvement but not quite what I want). On the other hand they work like really big backsaws, which is very appealing sometimes. I wouldn't use them in anything smaller than 3/4" stock now, though; I've done it before but I find my smaller backsaws work out better.

As far as those go, my favorite is an old Spear & Jackson I got from .. somewhere, can't remember, but it took a good amount of tuning to get it to a good state. I screwed around with quite a few at WIA when I was there, and pretty much everybody had nice ones. I was quite surprised by how pleasant to use (and fast!) the Veritas saws are, although I think I preferred the Gramercy. Since I managed to get the S&J tuned up nicely I didn't go home with any of them.

Anything new and cheaper than the Veritas seems to require way, way too much work to get to an acceptable state IMHO. If you're on a real budget you could get one from eBay, but I wouldn't want to do that for your first backsaw. If you get a bent one they can be fixed but it's a bear of a job.

[Tim Dorcas]

I have tried a few saws this week. My favorite was Rob Cosman's new dovetail saw. While it was the heaviest of the bunch, it was also incredibly well balanced. I kept going back to this saw whenever my instructor wasn't using it. Of course it is also the most expensive saw of the ones I used. The least expensive and my second favorite was the Lee Valley/Veritas Dovetail saw. They have two different ones - a 14 tpi and a 20 tpi. I used the 14tpi one with great results. One of the hardest things is to get saw started. The Veritas saw was one of the easiest to get going. While it looks a bit unconventional, it has a nice weight and feels quite good in the hand. I also personally own a Lie Nielson dovetail saw. This is not a bad saw by any means but when I had a chance to try out a few others, I found its cut to be a little coarse. It is also about double in price what the Veritas saw is.

I'll be interested to know what you get

[John Coloccia]

Right now I'm leaning towards the LV trifecta, and maybe make some bow saws for larger parts. I have to be honest that I didn't really like how the LN felt. The grip felt funny in my hand. I've been hearing so many great things about Cosman's saw and I'm certain I'll pick one of those up too at some point, but I'd rather start simple.

[Richard Magbanua]

I have a few LN's -the progressive pitch DT, coarse rip carcass and the x-cut carcass. I started with a dozuki and a Crown Gents saw.

First of all, after narrowing the kerf of the gents saw with a water stone just a tad, It worked really well, it was just a bit more difficult to hold consistently.

I'm tickled pink with all of the LN saws. It's hard to pick a favorite of the bunch. The x-cut actually cuts as smooth as the dozuki which was a big surprise.

With regards to the best saws for you, when you're talking about the premium saws available to us today, I think it depends on things like fit, aesthetics and patience but not quality. It seems that quality is pretty consistent across the main bunch of premium saws. I tried a Wenzloff saw before and while it was a beautiful saw and cut well the handle seemed a bit small for me. The LV saws were both about perfect in fit and cut but ultimately I gave-in to the aesthetics of the traditional look of the Lie-Nielsens.
Patience is an important consideration because with some of the saw makers you'll need to wait a bit before receiving your purchase. For example, I really loved the Eccentric tools saws that Andrew Lunn offers and would have ordered one but he's on a 14-month wait. I'm working on a dresser project now and I want to use hand-cut joinery for a lot of it. The Lie-Nielsen booth had saws ready to take home so that's what I got. I didn't see that as much of a compromise if any.
Above any of those considerations, I think the most important thing when it comes to hand saws is PRACTICE. I was a bit concerned with the LN Progressive pitch DT saw at first because it has a different feel compared to a consistent tooth pattern. But after 200 practice cuts It felt really good. Some people think it's the saw to blame if it catches or it's hard to start when it's usually the user's fault. Sawing by hand takes practice and a lot of touch.
Good luck with your purchase and let us know what you decide. And don't forget the pictures!

[Richard Magbanua]

That sounds like a great plan! Please post pics when you get them. You should be very happy with that purchase.

Take Care!

[gary Zimmel]

Good luck with the new saw purchase John.

A little warning though.
This slope is quite slippery and I bet it won't be your last....
These hand tools have a nasty habit of multipling on there own.

[Danny Thompson]

Consider the Gramercy Toolworks set from Joel at toolsforworkingwood.com

Gramercy's dovetail saw won Popular Woodworking's Best New Tools 2007. Their crosscut carcase saw won PW's Best New Tools 2008. Their rip carcase saw won Woodworking Magazine's Autumn 2009 Premium Carcase Saw tool test.

[Sean Hughto]

I love my Gramercy's! Hav ethe rip and crosscut carces as well as having made the kit dt:

[Rick Erickson]

John, take a look at the Rob Cosman saws. They are very nice. I don't think his site is listing the cross-cut saw yet but he has both dovetail and cross-cut. I have them both and sold my Lie-Nielsen shortly after aquiring his.

[John Coloccia]

Is his saw really that much better than a LV or a Gramercy?

Heavens....so many saws, so little time.